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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yeah I get that. It's a legal technicality though. Morally speaking there's no doubt in my mind the baby is owed a duty of care.
    Totally agree with you. It might be the law here but I think it's about time the laws were changed.

    What about the rights of the fetus/baby?? Generally speaking....once a woman decides to continue on with a pregnancy with the intention of having that child (which again is her choice as in this day & age you can safely end a pregnancy if you so wish) regardless of whether she intends to raise the child or adopt etc then that's when a duty of care law should apply IMO.

    ETA- My opinion on this has nothing to do with "having problems concieving" either, as it would still be the same if I'd conceived naturally as well though gotta love the presumption that only the women here who've had issues concieving feel especially outraged/overly judgemental about others behaviours etc regarding this topic!!!
    Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 05-11-2015 at 10:49.

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  3. #172
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    Its a little difficult when two persons share the same body...
    I don't like where this discussion is going. What would stop fathers to sue because the mum is going to work every day?
    Driving thus exposing unborn child to accidents and pollution?

    Just 1 example but there is no many possibilities...

    Life would be hell

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  5. #173
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    Yep. I agree that this discussion about suing the mother is ridiculous.
    Eg. What's to stop my daughter then from suing me because technically I gave her a genetic disease? Or if we had another child that child could sue me because we went in willingly knowing it's a very real possibility.
    Insane.

    The point of the story was to highlight that there is some evidence that alcohol consumption during pregnancy is not completely safe.
    But more importantly, we need more Dr's who can diagnose FAS along with recognition from the government that it is a disability and early intervention is key.

    At the end of the day it is up to the mother to decide if she will consume alcohol during pregnancy and it would be good for all Dr's to be more consistent in their approach of giving advice about it.

    I feel like there are some in this thread who just want to disagree for no valid point but just to disagree.

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  7. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Its a little difficult when two persons share the same body...
    I don't like where this discussion is going. What would stop fathers to sue because the mum is going to work every day?
    Driving thus exposing unborn child to accidents and pollution?

    Just 1 example but there is no many possibilities...

    Life would be hell
    That's drawing a long bow trying to compare the example you've given of fathers suing to a mother deliberately exposing her child to drugs whether illegal/legal knowing the ramifications of doing so!!

    Common sense around the formation of a duty of care law would stop those kinds of reasons being used to sue.

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  9. #175
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    Just no, the foetus can't have personhood outside the Mother. Do women really want their bodies policed during pregnancy?

    How about we start with a public health campaign, consistent messages from health care providers, availability of alcohol and drug workers for all ante natal women, better services for kids w. FAS-D before we start down a punitive track.

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  11. #176
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    Children suing their mothers is not the answer, but surely people can see why a child might feel completely ripped off if they have a disability that was directly caused by their mother engaging in recreational use of alcohol?

    It's bloody unfair, and our government doesn't even recognise FAS-D as a disability that requires ongoing support.

    When I watched the Four Corners report, a lot of the challenges they face are as significant as someone on the autism spectrum. They struggle to engage as a functional member of society, and we expect the same parent - the one who caused their child's disability - to step up and take care of them for the rest of their lives?

    Our government needs to step up, both in promoting strong awareness of FAS-D and recognising the support needs for the victims of this disorder.

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  13. #177
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    I haven't watched the programme yet but have followed this thread with interest and some defensiveness. I had about 4 (STANDARD) glasses of wine - cumulative total - in both my pregnancies and felt absolutely ok doing so. And yes I know what a standard drink is, and no I didn't need to have it but in each case it was an 'occasion' and it helped me feel like pregnancy (which I don't enjoy much) hadn't stopped me doing everything I enjoyed (ie a few sips of wine at a nice dinner). I did my own risk analysis - along with advice from my OB - about this and other issues. I didn't eat pate, soft cheese or soft serve but I did eat sushi from a trusted establishment. This was based on my own reading on the subject - there was a listeria breakout in Jindi cheese not long before my first pregnancy where some people died, so I stayed well away from that. I read up on Vitamin A overdose and decided not to risk pate. But I also read about sushi and raw fish consumption in Japan and how it's considered to be a part of good prenatal health and spoke to my OB who said that if food seems fresh I can use my best judgement. I read about the pH of properly seasoned sushi rice and its effect on bacteria growth. I didn't trust Wendy's or MacDonald's soft serve machines, despite some people saying that "the manager said they clean it every day" and I didn't eat precut salads like at Subway. Point is, I did my own risk benefit analysis, lots of research and reached a level I was comfortable with. It wasn't stupidity or naïveté that led me to the choices I made.

    Two things on that - 1. I had 2 losses and went through 3 rounds of IVF to get my babies. I was not complacent or ungrateful to be pregnant.

    2. DS2 had some trouble breathing after birth. He needed CPAP and ended up with a collapsed lung from it. This was just because he was taken out a bit early (38 weeks) but they tested for an infection and when I asked about that the paed made a throwaway comment that "oh it could be listeria, but you didn't eat any soft cheeses or anything did you". I felt the blood drain from my face when he said that. As soon as we were alone I was in hysterical tears and DH was saying "it's not something you ate, it's not something you did". And I was crying "I had to be such a fukking know it all, I had to eat sushi". Turns out it wasn't an infection. But if it had been I would never have been able to forgive myself (even though DS is totally fine now). I was comfortable with the choices I made but if I was to fall pregnant again I'm not sure I'd make the same choices.

  14. #178
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    @Mod-Degrassi on the show who is caring for the kids now? Are they still living with mothers who drink heavily or are they generally women who had kid takes when pregnant but have their act together now?

    I too think it's ridiculous there's no govt funding for assistance. My understanding of some of the o/s case law is to access insurance funds.

  15. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    @Mod-Degrassi on the show who is caring for the kids now? Are they still living with mothers who drink heavily or are they generally women who had kid takes when pregnant but have their act together now?

    I too think it's ridiculous there's no govt funding for assistance. My understanding of some of the o/s case law is to access insurance funds.
    There were a few different kids featured.

    One girl who was featured was only about 9 or 10 from memory, and she's cared for by her birth mother, who genuinely seems remorseful and is doing her best to care for her needs.

    Another young lady is now 25 years of age and was fostered out at age 15 because her behaviour was beyond her mother's control. This young lady still lives with her foster carer.

    There was a fellow about 30 years of age who struggles daily and uses drugs and alcohol to cope with feeling suicidal every day. I'm unsure of his care situation, but his mother was interviewed.

    They also featured briefly some children in an Aboriginal community where FAS-D was rife. A teenage boy who was profoundly effected was cared for by his father, the mother was out of the picture.

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  17. #180
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    These women need help, not handcuffs.

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