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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Of course I have but it's funny to read Aussies toot their own horn about what a humble culture they are.😉

    It also just gets tiresome having to read, fairly often, little jabs about Americans on here. I'm sure if you were on an American parenting forum and regularly saw little comments about Australians you would start to get annoyed. More often then not I bite my tongue, this time I didn't.
    Sorry it wasn't meant to be a jab - rather an observation. I love yanks and can list just as many negatives about Australian culture.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    We have known for a long time that it is best to abstain and to me saying 'oh but my Ob said it was fine' sounds like the person is looking for a reason to validate their decsion to have a drink. ......
    I'm calling bs here. When there are studies recently released and covered by media stating that an occasional drink does no harm why is it unreasonable for a woman to ask her OB their thoughts on this and trust that they would know best being that they are somebody far more educated in the field than your average pregnant woman?

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  4. #113
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    I'm a big drinker. I binge drank my way through my 20s and my favourite wine glasses are the ones that hold a quarter of an bottle but still look mostly empty 😉 I still love a drink now, consider myself pretty intelligent (toot toot!), have a tertiary education and my social circle is mostly made up of people like me.

    I had private obstetric care with DS1 and a private midwife with my pregnancy with DS2 (birthed in a public hospital with a public ob). Both my healthcare providers advocated an occasional wine was OK. So whoever called BS on that, I'm telling you that's precisely what I was told. I was also told to be vigilant but not OTT about listeria risks, take folic acid and a whole bunch of other advice to optimize the health of my babies.
    I was a cold meat shunning, sushi avoiding, vitamin taking tee totaller during both my pregnancies. With DS1 not a drop of alcohol passed my lips and with DS2 I had a sip of red wine with the intent of having a glass in my 41st week of pregnancy under the *advice* of my midwife, but the guilt was awful and I handed the glass to DH. I know loads of people who had the very odd drink during pregnancy and it used to make me so, so angry because IMO it was taking a risk for such a trivial benefit. I kept saying to myself, if even I can not drink for 42 weeks (well, 41+5, thanks DS2) then anyone can. But I held my tongue because FASD was/is still seen as the affliction of children from mothers who drank heavily and even in recent years, professional opinion has been that the odd drink does no harm.

    It's a touchy topic but I agree, one that needs more discussion. I haven't watched the show and won't because I will find it too distressing, but I wonder if anyone who has watched it can shed light on whether any of the mothers in the show had caregivers who advocated the odd drink? At which point do they also shoulder some of the responsibility and acknowledge their advice was in fact negligent?

  5. #114
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm calling bs here. When there are studies recently released and covered by media stating that an occasional drink does no harm why is it unreasonable for a woman to ask her OB their thoughts on this and trust that they would know best being that they are somebody far more educated in the field than your average pregnant woman?
    The concern I have is that when you talk about the guidelines, those are based off lots of research specifically on that topic and are the same for everyone in the country. If you ask your OB, however, two different women could get two different answers and also interpret those answers differently as well.

    We were talking about smoking during pregnancy on Facebook recently and there are an alarming number of people who, as heavy smokers, were told it was okay to smoke during pregnancy or, at least, that's how they interpreted what their OB told them. What their OB may have said was "cut back and you need to quit" but what they heard was "cut back". So many people reported that their OB said "it would be dangerous for you to quit smoking" which was more than likely a "don't go cold turkey but you do need to quit" and they just heard what they wanted to hear.

    A huge part of the issue here is Australia's drinking culture. People seem to think that you HAVE to drink to have a good time. Way back in the thread someone said it was crazy to abstain from alcohol at your wedding. I didn't intentionally do so but I drank no alcohol at my wedding and had a perfectly good time.

    I've long thought that Australia's drinking culture NEEDS to change and this is just further proof. So many things would be improved if we, as a society, drank less (one punch deaths, glassings, other violent crimes, etc.).
    Last edited by Apple iPhart6; 04-11-2015 at 06:46.

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  7. #115
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    Sad to see the thread descend into back biting bc it's such an important topic (but glad mods haven't closed it ) Look, as I already said, I never drink at all in my pgs. My personal stance is that it's been so difficult to get the baby I would probably blame myself if something happened even if it wasn't related to the alcohol. I agree there is no safe level and I was told that almost 12 years ago when pg with my first child so it's been around a long time.

    But members are talking about a drink or two a week here, not a day. The women who have done this are good mums who love their kids. No parent is perfect and I dare anyone to raise their hand that was absolutely perfect in pg, not just in food but in every way. Obviously as parents we want to do the right thing, me included. But I'm certainly no perfect mum, wife or human. If someone admitted drinking 5 drinks a day I'd get the outrage. But Sonya etc had 1 or 2 a week. We may not see eye to eye on everything but I do know she's a loving responsible mum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mod-Degrassi View Post
    I guess one difference that comes to mind is that it's unlikely that a health care provider would say a couple of smokes a day is fine, and it's widely known that smoking causes harm to unborn children.

    The bottom line is, a gp or an ob should not be telling any woman that any amount of alcohol consumed during pregnancy is okay, as they cannot guarantee that, nor can they moderate the size or potency of 'one drink'.
    I know quite a few women that were smokers at the time of conception and were told by obs and gps that it would probably be better to cut down to a couple a day rather than the stress giving up would put on the baby. Sadly smokers are addicted (as opposed to those that choose to have a drink and aren't alcoholics). I agree. Med pros should not be telling women it's ok to have 'one or two'.

  8. #116
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    Quote Originally Posted by Moxy View Post
    It's a touchy topic but I agree, one that needs more discussion. I haven't watched the show and won't because I will find it too distressing, but I wonder if anyone who has watched it can shed light on whether any of the mothers in the show had caregivers who advocated the odd drink? At which point do they also shoulder some of the responsibility and acknowledge their advice was in fact negligent?
    One woman said her OB said drinking was fine. She was having 3-4 standard drinks 2-4 times a week. Again, as I said above, it's hard to say that's actually what her OB told her because people hear what they want to hear a lot of the time. I do believe some OBs do and would say that it's okay to have a drink or two in moderation during pregnancy but I don't believe any OB would think it's okay to have 3-4 standard drinks 2-4 times a week during pregnancy!

    I want to ask my OB his thoughts on drinking during pregnancy the next time I see him but I'm scared he'll say it's okay and then I'll think less of him.
    Last edited by Apple iPhart6; 04-11-2015 at 06:45.

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  10. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Sad to see the thread descend into back biting bc it's such an important topic (but glad mods haven't closed it

    ...

    We may not see eye to eye on everything but I do know she's a loving responsible mum.
    I was saddened by that, too.

    I don't think people should drink during pregnancy but even the woman on the show who was drinking 7 standard drinks a day is a loving, responsible mum. She made a terrible, terrible choice during pregnancy and she is living with those consequences every day, as is her daughter.

    The fact that people judge the mothers who drank during pregnancy so harshly really does nothing towards helping the children who are suffering from it. It just makes it that much harder for their mothers to get them help when it's such a shameful thing to know they caused this and that fear of being judged for it is so prevalent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple iPhart6 View Post
    I was saddened by that, too.

    I don't think people should drink during pregnancy but even the woman on the show who was drinking 7 standard drinks a day is a loving, responsible mum. She made a terrible, terrible choice during pregnancy and she is living with those consequences every day, as is her daughter.

    The fact that people judge the mothers who drank during pregnancy so harshly really does nothing towards helping the children who are suffering from it. It just makes it that much harder for their mothers to get them help when it's such a shameful thing to know they caused this and that fear of being judged for it is so prevalent.
    I dare say those drinking to that level are alcoholics. My first response as a mum is to shake my head anyone could do that. But what we need is education and support. Possibly beds at rehab specifically for pg women. Yes it would be expensive but less than the cost on the tax payer of a FAS child.

    It's tragic women are drinking like this. But they need help.

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  13. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I dare say those drinking to that level are alcoholics. My first response as a mum is to shake my head anyone could do that. But what we need is education and support. Possibly beds at rehab specifically for pg women. Yes it would be expensive but less than the cost on the tax payer of a FAS child.

    It's tragic women are drinking like this. But they need help.
    Yeah, I can't fathom drinking that much even not pregnant. There was another lady who drank 3-4 drinks 2-4 times a week. Then again, I've only ever been a social drinker and I would technically binge drink when I did drink (since no drinks normally then tonnes when I drank).

    I think any kind of change needs to start with the medical profession. The caregivers of pregnant women need to be asking how many standard drinks they're having right from the first appointment after they find out they're pregnant. If they drink a lot or often, they need to be managed differently and given support to get through the pregnancy with as little alcohol as possible.

    Many people have said that FASD is 100% preventable and it is but the medical profession are the front line of the battlefield against it so to speak.

  14. #120
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    7 standard drinks every day? Wow. Though that's "only" a bottle of wine, little bit less. I know people who could do that and *do* do that every day without any problems. Well, aside from the fact they're obviously high functioning alcoholics....

    I'm tipping though it's way more common than thought. Even my well trained liver couldn't handle that level of drinking.

    People get very defensive about their drinking habits though. Very. And speaking from experience of both myself and people I know, people also underestimate (ie.lie) about how much they drink when their drinking is excessive. I would think measuring what levels of drinking are "safe" would be made even more difficult because of this. I'd be questioning how much the mothers say they drank vs what they actually drank. Shame, guilt, blackout, perception (eg. what is a "standard drink" ) and bog standard memory fade can do interesting things to people's recollection of their drinking habits.


 

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