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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    I've only read along until now and did not watch the show in discussion.

    My SIL had TWO beers (now considered 3 standard drinks?) in the second trimester while out at dinner for her and my brothers anniversary. My nephew (now 12) has many facial features of FAS-D. Low ears, wide set eyes, no bridge and the upper lip doesnt have that bit between the nose (I don't know what it's called sorry). If you didn't know what you were looking at you would have no idea. He is an incredibly smart young man who is not delayed, extremely good at sport and seemingly normal in appearance. I don't believe it is a coincidence that he has these features. His sisters, do not have the same features and SIL didn't drink at all during those pregnancies.

    It has been made very clear for a very long time (20years+, I know this because I remember being mortified when my cousin drank while pregnant with her now 22 year old, I was 9 and even I knew better?...) that alcohol in pregnancy is not considered safe. I don't believe many people knew FAS-D was the potential outcome though. I don't think people really knew the potential outcomes at all, just that they shouldn't do it.

    I'm sure I read last week or the week before that the new data released indicates that 'alcohol is contraindicated in pregnancy' and that it is no longer 'there is no known safe level of alcohol in pregnancy'. Could be wrong.

    Drinking during pregnancy is a personal choice but I call bs on the people who say they took the advice of their health care provider who said a drink here or there is safe. We have known for a long time that it is best to abstain and to me saying 'oh but my Ob said it was fine' sounds like the person is looking for a reason to validate their decsion to have a drink. You already knew it wasn't considered safe by world standards but you still asked one person for their opinion. It doesn't take a highly intelligent person to know that it is not considered safe at any level either. There are exceptions to this but they are very very few. I know of people who grew up around excessive alcohol, who hardly ever go to a dr (or any medical professional for that matter) and never attended their ante natal appts because they didn't think they were important. These people live a very isolated life and are illiterate so wouldn't know what the side of a beer bottle says.

    I love a cold beer (or few) and there was nothing I wanted more at 4am Sunday morning to celebrate the All Blacks winning the rugby but my interpretation of risks vs benefit (because I too am intelligent) meant I knew that it wasn't worth the risk.

    How many of us didn't take folic acid during pregnancy because the chances of neural tube defects are low? Or, did we still take it despite the fact because we knew the benefit of taking it outweighed the risk of not taking it?.......
    Careful. It can be a very long way down when one of us inevitably falls off our high horse.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    I've only read along until now and did not watch the show in discussion.

    My SIL had TWO beers (now considered 3 standard drinks?) in the second trimester while out at dinner for her and my brothers anniversary. My nephew (now 12) has many facial features of FAS-D. Low ears, wide set eyes, no bridge and the upper lip doesnt have that bit between the nose (I don't know what it's called sorry). If you didn't know what you were looking at you would have no idea. He is an incredibly smart young man who is not delayed, extremely good at sport and seemingly normal in appearance. I don't believe it is a coincidence that he has these features. His sisters, do not have the same features and SIL didn't drink at all during those pregnancies.

    It has been made very clear for a very long time (20years+, I know this because I remember being mortified when my cousin drank while pregnant with her now 22 year old, I was 9 and even I knew better?...) that alcohol in pregnancy is not considered safe. I don't believe many people knew FAS-D was the potential outcome though. I don't think people really knew the potential outcomes at all, just that they shouldn't do it.

    I'm sure I read last week or the week before that the new data released indicates that 'alcohol is contraindicated in pregnancy' and that it is no longer 'there is no known safe level of alcohol in pregnancy'. Could be wrong.

    Drinking during pregnancy is a personal choice but I call bs on the people who say they took the advice of their health care provider who said a drink here or there is safe. We have known for a long time that it is best to abstain and to me saying 'oh but my Ob said it was fine' sounds like the person is looking for a reason to validate their decsion to have a drink. You already knew it wasn't considered safe by world standards but you still asked one person for their opinion. It doesn't take a highly intelligent person to know that it is not considered safe at any level either. There are exceptions to this but they are very very few. I know of people who grew up around excessive alcohol, who hardly ever go to a dr (or any medical professional for that matter) and never attended their ante natal appts because they didn't think they were important. These people live a very isolated life and are illiterate so wouldn't know what the side of a beer bottle says.

    I love a cold beer (or few) and there was nothing I wanted more at 4am Sunday morning to celebrate the All Blacks winning the rugby but my interpretation of risks vs benefit (because I too am intelligent) meant I knew that it wasn't worth the risk.

    How many of us didn't take folic acid during pregnancy because the chances of neural tube defects are low? Or, did we still take it despite the fact because we knew the benefit of taking it outweighed the risk of not taking it?.......
    I feel that's a bit harsh but probably fair but I did take the advice of my Ob. I feel bad and I feel fortunate.

  3. #93
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    These were the guidelines in 2006. Less than 7 standard glasses a week and no more than 2 in one day.

    I have no idea when you were pregnant but these were the guidelines i followed which were referred to me by all medical carers during my pregnancies.

    I didn't come even close to drinking to this level. I'm not sure where you're getting you info from.
    Last edited by Sonja; 03-11-2015 at 23:18.

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  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Careful. It can be a very long way down when one of us inevitably falls off our high horse.
    I'll tuck and roll ;-) Don't worry, I won't be back. I've said my bit and I don't plan on coming back to defend myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ngaiz View Post
    I'll tuck and roll ;-) Don't worry, I won't be back. I've said my bit and I don't plan on coming back to defend myself.
    How brave of you.

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    I think a lot of what @Ngaiz said is valid. .however. ... I don't agree with this bs issue with OBs. I think yes. .we ask these questions because we want to know from a person who should be knowledgeable in their field. And we want to trust that they have the right informed answers.
    That's why we go to the OB in the first place and not ..say, an opthamologist for pregnancy.

    I hope OBs are being upskilled on the possible effects of just one or two drinks during pregnancy and can therefore tell their patients the correct information.
    That's what is great about progress in medicine. ..we learn. ..and from that we should make better decisions.

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  10. #97
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    Firstly, I'm a little bit shocked at how many comments in this thread were straight up attacks at other members. Quite sad that we can't "play the ball and not the man" during discussions like this.

    Anyway, I haven't drunk during either of my pregnancies (assuming I don't have a drink in the next 16 weeks!). Then again, I'm not a huge drinker in general, though I have been known to binge drink in the past. I've known about FASD for a long time, a boy I met when he was six (he's now about twenty) has it quite severely due to his mother drinking while pregnant with him. He lives in the US so that falls in line with what they said on the program about us being behind the times with diagnoses and support for it.

    I had to reign in my inner Judgy McJudgerson while watching the show. Like some, I was shocked by the woman who drank 7 standard drinks a day, heck even the one drinking 3-4 seemed excessive to me. What I realised is that judging them helps nobody. I could sit on my high horse thinking I'm the world's best mother because I abstained from alcohol while pregnant but no doubt I do a LOT of things that other parents would abstain from and we all make different parenting choices.

    At the end of the day, these women are living with the consequences of their actions (as are their children). There's no point judging them because by god they are judging themselves more harshly than you ever could. The guilt they seem to hold over their children suffering from FASD as a direct cause of their own actions is incredibly sad. So unless you have the ability to build a time machine, travel back in time and stop them from drinking, it's probably far better to have some empathy and put yourself in their shoes for a second than it is to judge them for what they did.

    What's important here is that FASD is recognised and that the people suffering get support. Wider spread attention on the risks of drinking while pregnant. As someone pointed out, there are a tonne of things to do with pregnancy that we will likely never get accurate studies on simply because it is completely unethical for them to do a proper peer reviewed study on it.

    The medical profession just needs to man up and recommend "no drinking while pregnant" rather than trying to find the exact level of alcohol consumption that is safe while pregnant. After all, don't we constantly say here on BH that "every pregnancy is different"? If they find X amount of drinks is safe during pregnancy, how many people will drink exactly that many? How many people will accidentally go over and drink too much while trying to hit that limit exactly? How many babies will be affected even though their mother has slightly less than the recommended amount?

    Anyway, I'm off to have a difficult conversation with a friend. Someone said about most unplanned pregnancies being found out when people are 4-6 weeks? Not in my experience. I know two people who found out past 8-10 weeks and the friend I'm about to send a delicately worded message to found out at almost 20 weeks.
    Last edited by Apple iPhart6; 04-11-2015 at 01:31.

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  12. #98
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    I'm still reading through replies but a few weeks ago my newsfeed was inundated with stories from the American news agencies I follow about how the American Academy of Pediatrics (or maybe physicians, that would make more sense...) had updated it's policy due to new research regarding FAS to state that absolutely no amount of alcohol was considered safe during pregnancy. It was literally everywhere on every major news station and out of curiosity I checked UK and Australian news to see if there was a mention and could find nothing. I had wondered if it came more down to cultural guidelines as to why the UK or Australia wasn't reporting on this and the fact that the US has always been stricter on it's views of drinking while pregnant.

  13. #99
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    Default FAS-D on 4 Corners

    Here's one of the news articles, it was the American Academy of Pediatricians stating no amount of alcohol was safe due to the rise in cases of children on the FAS spectrum they are seeing. To be fair, officially Australia's guidelines are to abstain I think the issue is more that culturally people think a glass or two is ok and that is reinforced by our care providers. My OB in Melbourne said an occasional glass of wine after the first trimester was ok and although I have known about FAS since high school I thought it was only an issue with prolonged or heavy/binge drinking, not that one glass of wine could cause a child to be on the FAS spectrum. There's also a fairly recent Danish study that found no harm in an occasional glass (while reiterating that an 'occasional glass' was a small standard drink, not the pitchers so many of us pour ourselves).

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/21/he...ing-pregnancy/

    http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...while-pregnant
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 04-11-2015 at 04:59.

  14. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Nette View Post
    Of course they can't do a proper study to prove that. To be scientifically acceptable you would have to deliberately expose different people to different alcohol volumes while pregnant. I don't think that is going to get ethics approval somehow.
    Scientists could do more studies on rats like was shown on the 4 corners program (or other animals).


 

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