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  1. #1
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    Default Lean PCOS and egg quality

    Hi all, I was dx with pcos (I'm 32yrs, weight 52kgs) a year ago after trying naturally for 3 years (after going off the pill 4 years ago it took 7 months for my first AF, then 5 months, then 3 months, it came down down until it now sits between 30-35 days. I have done x2 IVF cycles this year, got 12 and 15 eggs, most fertilised but by day 3, half were dead, and the other half were struggling so both times d3transfer, and the rest didn't make it to day 5, so no frozen embies ever. Both cycles didn't end up working. My Dr told me at that stage I'm a 'strange case and to consider egg donor. I switched Drs, new Dr put me no Metaformin 2 weeks ago, I plan to do this for 3 months and try IVF again. I also am booked in for ovarian drilling next week. I'm not sure if Im IR or not but as I'm quite thin, I didn't think so, I eat whatever I want, lots of pasta and rice dishs and hot chips/fries when I'm eating out. 2 weeks ago when I started Met, I did more research online and found most people with pcos are IR and need to go on a no carb, rice, pasta, sugar diet. The 1st week was really hard, I'm getting better now but have lost too much weight as i struggle to find things I like eating. Just wondering if any lean pcos girls had success after 1) metaformin, 2) pcos no carb/sugar diet 3) ovarian drilling? Did anyone see an increase in egg quality after trying anything??

  2. #2
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    Hi @Projectbub
    I have just come across your post! You sound exactly like me. I have also had the egg donor talk. I weigh a little more than you but am still considered a lean PCOS. FS thinks I have PCO. My egg quality is terrible, with lots of fragmentation in all 3 stim cycles that I have done. I am also on metformin and have been taking lots of lots of vitamins (from my research) but I don't think it did much for my last cycle. I am now also looking at the no carb/sugar free diet. How did you go with the ovarian drilling- that is something I have also read about online. A little scary though considering all the potential side effects. Did you FS suggest it? Have you done a cycle since and has anything helped?

  3. #3
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    Hi @Keiko2012 thanks for your reply, I thought I was the only one after no replies lol The drilling a few weeks ago went ok, yes my FS suggested, so did my last one but I've only chosen to do it now. Its hard to say if its made any difference as I've had no testing done and no cycles since (I was only done nearly 3 weeks ago) but I've read online testosterone levels are meant to drop quite fast. I'm also taking all the supplements you're prob taking, so there was no difference in your cycle after taking them? Which ones are you taking if you don't mind me asking and for how long before the next cycle? How long have you been on Metaformin for? I saw in your signature you've had some frozen embies! Thats great! I so far haven't gotten past day 3 I would think getting a frozen embie meant its pretty good to grow that far??
    I have just started a homeopath 4 month course of pills, its meant to increase egg quality so we are going to try naturally for 4 months on this program and if nothing then I will do another IVF cycle straight after that and hopefully will see a quality difference. I've read so many stories about Metaformin helping and getting pregnant a few months later.
    Have you considered the donor? Do you mind me asking how you feel about it? xx

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    Also @Keiko2012, do you know if you are IR?

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    Hi, I hope you don't mind me putting my 2c worth in. I don't have PCOS but I do have a DD through egg donation and moving to a donor is the best decision my DH and I could have made.

    Having said that, at your age I would exhaust every avenue of testing to be sure that the issue is actually the PCOS and that it can't be rectified. Has your partner had any testing to ensure the issue is not his side...for example, a DNA fragmentation test? (I'm assuming he's done the standard tests of sperm count etc). We both had so many tests after our first IVF cycle failed....I think 14 vials of blood for me to test for all manner of things. I felt very comfortable that my eggs were the only issue by the time we moved to a donor.

    Please rest assured that if you do go with a donor you will love and cherish your baby all the same as though they were your own eggs xx

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    No advice on the egg quality but I have lean PCOS ( weigh 46.5kg) but have insulin resistance.

    It's part of PCOS. Insulin resistance causes higher insulin levels causes high androgens causes high FSH and low LH ect it's a pretty complicated metabolic issue and lean PCOS is known to respond to metformin even in cases where they haven't shown insulin resistance, eg my fasting insulin and blood glucose level are always normal but GTT showed insulin resistance. ( high 1 hour )

    Anyway I was put on metformin and have conceived easily both times I've been pregnant.

    Goodluck

    Worth testing fit hashimotos aswell as it seems to go with PCOS

  7. #7
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    @Projectbub, I'm sure we are definitely not the only ones (at least I don't hope so!). The ovarian drilling sound quite scary, but I am getting to the point of trying it all - so who knows with the decrease of testosterone that might just be what I need?! I certainly don't know but am willing to try it all. It's the finances I worry about, I am happy to subject my body through it all if it makes a difference in the long run!

    So I re-started Metformin in July. And my next cycle was just at the end of October. Vitamin list: Thyroxine (Hypothyroidism but only started meds for IVF), ViT C, E, D, Ubiquinol (was taken ubiquinone- now my acupuncturist has given me ubiquinone with a mid of lipoid and vit E), Fish Oil, NAC, Alpha Lipoid Acid, Zinc, and Myo-Inositol, Iron (but not daily), and Folic acid. I used to have Berocca but now changed back to Elevit as my acupuncturist told me berocca has too much sugar in it and is bad for PCOS. She has also given me probiotics. Wondering about inofolic at this stage (combination of mho-inositol and folic acid - even though I;ve been taking myoinositol anyway).I hope this makes sense. I did of course have some days where I didn't have all the tablets and I needed a break, because with the metformin I was swallowing an excess of 20 plus pills a day...... My next move is adding royal jelly and maca powder. I suppose your list looks very similar too mine..

    I got 2 frozen embryos the first cycle (one of which didn't make the thaw), but I am realising how much of a fluke my first cycle must have been. Have they mentioned anything about egg quality to you? Mine seem to be very fragmented and I also seem to have this issue of multiple nuclei in them- so they have to be discarded. This last cycle out of the 7 embryos - 4 had the multi nuclei.

    The only think I haven't tried is seeing a homeopath/naturopath. What sort of pills are you taking? Have you changed your diet as a result? Good luck with trying naturally- it might just work!? I sometimes think maybe my eggs just don't like the FSH meds.. Unfortunately we don't have the chance to try naturally, my partner has no sperm and thats why we started IVF in the first place. Who knew we both have issues!!!

    Not sure how I feel about embryo donation. I have accepted having a sperm donor. But if the only chance of having a child for me means having an egg and sperm donor or someone that is willing to donate their embryos to me, than I am ok with this. I see it as an enormous gift in the first place- someone donating. I feel like people must be extremely selfless. But yes, I would love to have a child of my own too!
    @MrsErinR Congratulations on your girl How did you find the donor process? I can see from your signature that you went to SA. Did it take long for you to find a donor and if you don't mind me asking how much did it roughly cost? I presume that you don't get anything back from medicare. Did you have to do all your scans etc over there and did you get to have a fresh transfer or are they all frozen transfers? Sorry about all the questions- I guess I am just curious and trying to see what might be involved if we are heading down the donor egg path in the next year or two.

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    @Projectbub what is IR?

  9. #9
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    @keiko my old Dr said to me after 2 failed IVF cycles that it must be egg quality and I may want to consider egg donor (my new Dr seems more positive, he said with pco that you just have to balance the hormones and then the egg 'grow up' in a better environment and is much healthier). On my last cycle I had one Grade 1 A, on day 3, which is meant to be the best you can get, they transferred it because they were scared if we waited until day 5 if may have stopped growing and I'd have nothing to transfer. When it was transferred it obv didn't stick, however in both of my 2WW, my grandfather passed away the first time and I lost my grandma in the 2nd 2WW. I don't know if the grief may have hurt my chances or not but I feel like if I had a good quality one transferred, then maybe I can get more with more cycles and 1 may work? The homeopath pills I'm taking are just little balls you dissolve under your tongue, it's a 4 month program, I'm currently half way through my 1st month, it's a whole lot more pills to add into the daily regime. I'll be sure to let you know if I get any good news. Its meant to be good for people who were on the pill for ages, I was on the pill for about 15 years and never took a break, hoping I fall into this category! Regarding $$, have you heard of bulk billed IVF? I saw a billboard for it the other day - http://www.babycenter.com.au/thread/1133325/primary-ivf-bulk-billed-

    @MrsErinR Yes please do put your 2c in, yes DH has had the DNA fragmentation test and all is fine. He has had glowing results everytime. It must be egg quality. But with my condition I'm hoping we can change my hormones and conceive using my own eggs. I have come to accept that I have a few years left in me to try for my own eggs, and if all else fails after I've tried everything I will happily move to egg donor. However I have so many worries, do you tell the child? Will they go to school and repeat it to friends and be teased, what if I tell them when they are older and they are angry at me, or think I'm not their real mum. Do you tell your friends and family, will they see the child differently... Do you have any of those concerns? Further to that were you able to select any traits, like hair colour or was it completely anonymous or open?? Sorry to bombard you with questions

    @BlueLips May I ask if you had trouble falling before taking Metaformin? Were you O'ing? If so, how long did it take to fall after taking metaformin? Did you follow a sugar free diet to fall? I'm actually getting the GTT on Tues this week! My Dr said he didn't suggest I have it done due to my fasting glucose levels etc but I feel like I need this test to know whether to change my diet or not (I'm a pasta and break lover and eat plenty of it).
    Last edited by Projectbub; 08-11-2015 at 09:05.

  10. #10
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    If you are already on metformin the GTT won't be accurate I think you have to stop it atleast 48hours prior to the test.

    I wasn't ovulating before I was on metformin. I hadn't TTC yet and had started metformin 3 months prior to TTC because I knew I had PCOS

    I have erratic cycles and annovulatory cycles when not on metformin and when my hashimotos isn't well controlled.
    I followed a fairly strict diet TTC but it wasn't until I got diagnosed Gestational diabetic In pregnancy that I went completely refined sugar and "carb" free.

    So I did fall pregnant both times without being totally sugar and carb free


 

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