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  1. #41
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    Default **trigger warning** Recent refugee incidents in Europe

    I think what 60schild means is that there are Middle Eastern countries that are known to not be helping. That said; Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and Jordan have all taken vast numbers. I do wonder though since the Middle East is known for conflicts between certain types of people (Kurds, Sunni/Shiite, etc) if it's even safe for some refugees to try and seek help in some countries.

    I do agree with the more 'right wing' stance that in order to stop the refugees we need to figure out how to 'fix' Syria, but bottom line--fixing Syria is going to take years, if not decades, and in the meantime there will be more and more refugees. So that's really not an answer to the current crisis. This is a humanitarian crisis and every country really needs to up their game in dealing with it. It's more Europe's problem now because Europe is the closest western area to help but every other country really needs to start aiding Europe more. There are refugee camps in Calais, France because the UK wouldn't take more (they've now agreed to). That little boy drowned because Canada refused asylum. I know all of our countries can do more and it's heartbreaking that they are not.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 05-09-2015 at 17:15.

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  3. #42
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    Has anybody read this nytimes piece on Abbott's refugee policy?
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/03..._r=0&referrer=

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Has anybody read this nytimes piece on Abbott's refugee policy?
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/03..._r=0&referrer=
    Yeah I shared it on my fb wall a few days ago.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    After reading the story about Aylan, I wrote a letter. I'm not really sure what to do with it, or the point of it, but hey.

    Dear Mr Abbott,
    Tonight I did as I do every night. I tucked my daughter into bed, kissed her goodnight and left the room,hoping she would sleep through tonight. Please. Instead of waking up to imagined monsters, crying and hysterical. I can't fight off the imagined monsters of a two year old, though as her parent, her protector, her safe place, I try to.
    Think back, Mister Abbott, to when your daughter was a toddler and the imagined monsters under the bed came to call. How helpless did you feel, cradling a sobbing child to banish the last vestiges of a nightmare? I imagine you did as I do, rocked her, stroked her hair, kissed the top of her head, whisper it was all okay, her dreams can't hurt her, they're gone now.

    After tucking her into bed, I listed my son. Just ten weeks old, starting to smile and laugh and learn about the world. There are no monsters for him. For him, I am safety, calm. Protector and safe place. Like you. Like all parents.
    So I lifted him up, gave him a cuddle and started to read about the world and find out what's happening today. What's happening in the world today breaks my heart, as it does every day.

    Mister Abbott, when you effectively legalised child rape, abuse and torture, I was silent. I am ashamed of that. It will haunt me all my days. I will forever know I did nothing. I was complicit in these actions and it makes me cry. I carry this as a burden on my heart and soul, as I should. As all good people should. For evil prevails when good people do nothing.

    So now I write to you in the hopes you will learn. You will remember. You will remember that overwhelming urge to protect your children from monsters. How you know, at that moment, without question or shadow of a doubt, that you would go to the ends of the Earth to protect your daughters from those monsters. Whether those monsters be real or imagined.
    Now I'm sure you're wondering why I'm asking you to remember all those years ago, to when you cuddled a sobbing child and were overwhelmed, swamped by that complete feeling of helplessness.
    This is why.

    A little boy washed up on a Turkish beach today. His mother and father would have cradled a sobbing child. But his monsters were real. They weren't the imaginings of a child with monsters under his bed. His monsters were outside, with guns and bombs and angry shouting. His mother and father couldn't cuddle these ones away. I imagine, instead, they would prey for it to stop. They would present a smiling face, cradle their sobbing child, stroke his head and tell him it would be okay. And then prey that were true.
    And then they went to the ends of the Earth to make that happen.
    They died anyway, Mister Abbott. That little boys monsters won. His nightmare was a reality. His parents were tested and they did what all of us, who are so very lucky, swear we would do for our children. To protect them, to give them a good life, to make sure they are safe and loved. They went to the ends of the Earth. An empty promise for us and a cold and hard reality for them.

    So, Mister Abbott, while I know you can't end the worlds ills all by yourself, there are Australians who will help you. There are humans that will help you. That are begging you.

    You are a father not just to your daughters. You are in the privileged place of being a guardian, a father, to all of Australia. You have a heavy burden placed upon you. I'm sure you didn't know how heavy it really was when you fought so hard to get there. But now you are.
    You can make changes for the good of all humans, not just those born onto a piece of rock a few kilometers away from another piece of rock.
    They are human, they are frightened and they need help.

    It is your responsibility to save us from the nightmares, Mister Abbott. Please don't add to them. We will help.

    Regards,
    A concerned human.
    Send it to Abbott and to your local MP

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  7. #45
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    I have tried to write something for days on this subject. My heart hurts. I see the pictures and my heart breaks. I read the stories and I am so so angry that the world just seems to want to pretend that it is not happening. I read Tony Abbot's comments. What he said is so heartless and cruel. It's like believes that it's better for them to die in their homes because then we don't have to know and care.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Has anybody read this nytimes piece on Abbott's refugee policy?
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/03..._r=0&referrer=
    Don't read the comments. There are heartless responses from so many people (and Tony Abbott supporters apparently lol)

  8. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    A heartbreaking gut-wrenching story.
    I'm sick to the stomach thinking of what poor Aylan, the same age as my son, must have been going through in his last moments. Rip bubba xx

    To answer your question, by diverting all funding spent on a military response to humanitarian relief you would have:
    1) a bunch of well looked after refugees with no hope of ever returning home because home would forever be in the hands of thugs
    2) increased threats to Australia and Western interests because the ratbags allowed to displace the local population in the first place have been allowed to operate unchecked (think Bin Laden in Afghanistan before September 11).
    .
    I'm really interested in this answer, because to a layperson like me I don't see that Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan are better off, safer etc as a result of Western military response. I'd have to do some deeper digging to look at some other scenarios of course. I'm not talking about no funding for the military, that would be ludicrous. But the military response certainly contributes to the displacement of refugees, and I'm having trouble thinking of a 'successful' military campaign in my life time. (I'm not talking peace keeping missions and I'm definitely not having a go at the military here.)

    I'm also not convinced by the increased threats part. I'd be very interested to read some links that support this if you have any, because I think much of that is political propaganda rather than truth. And let's not forget that a lot of the ratbags, like Osama and Saddam, have been overtly assisted to their position of ratbaggery by Western nations.[/QUOTE]

    I think you're placing the egg before the chicken.

    There is military action because people on the ground are doing things that are unacceptable. There are plenty of videos of IS chopping people's heads off. It's a combination of the initial b&stardry and the resulting military action that is driving people from their homes.

    I'm sorry but cutting military action at this point will lead to IS territorial gain and wide spread genocide.

    You can't neutralize terrorists by supporting refugees alone. And you can't just ask terrorists nicely to stop what they are doing. At some point reality has to step in - you can't find terrorists with niceties.

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  10. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm really interested in this answer, because to a layperson like me I don't see that Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan are better off, safer etc as a result of Western military response. I'd have to do some deeper digging to look at some other scenarios of course. I'm not talking about no funding for the military, that would be ludicrous. But the military response certainly contributes to the displacement of refugees, and I'm having trouble thinking of a 'successful' military campaign in my life time. (I'm not talking peace keeping missions and I'm definitely not having a go at the military here.)

    I'm also not convinced by the increased threats part. I'd be very interested to read some links that support this if you have any, because I think much of that is political propaganda rather than truth. And let's not forget that a lot of the ratbags, like Osama and Saddam, have been overtly assisted to their position of ratbaggery by Western nations.
    I think you're placing the egg before the chicken.

    There is military action because people on the ground are doing things that are unacceptable. There are plenty of videos of IS chopping people's heads off. It's a combination of the initial b&stardry and the resulting military action that is driving people from their homes.

    I'm sorry but cutting military action at this point will lead to IS territorial gain and wide spread genocide.

    You can't neutralize terrorists by supporting refugees alone. And you can't just ask terrorists nicely to stop what they are doing. At some point reality has to step in - you can't find terrorists with niceties.[/QUOTE]

    I'll be the first to admit I need to do a lot more learning about this topic. You seem to have honed in on my original comment, which I probably made without giving enough thought.

    My point was more about the huge money making juggernaut that is war, and the huge amount of money that is thrown at such things. Just as you object to money being thrown at sporting stadiums (totally agree by the way), I object to the amount of money that is spent on Defence if we aren't going to bear some responsibility for the fall out too. That's all. Paternalism historically doesn't work, and this is being proven again and again around the world. You can't just go into a place and 'fix' it without human lives being affected both positively and negatively.

    I don't really want to derail this thread, but I'll gladly read some of the links/references I asked for in my last post if you can point me the right way :-)

    Also, I know you think I'm a bleeding heart lefty softie loony, but I have a black hatred in my heart and soul for ISIS. I don't believe in evil except for those sadistic, murderous scumbags. So please don't mistake my comments for not supporting the military and any or all efforts to obliterate them from the face of the earth. I just wish we could do that, and then open our doors to the innocent families who have suffered more than we can imagine as well.

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  12. #48
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    The images really bought it home, you can read about it but one little dead toddler lying on a beach in his little red shorts just really makes you stop and think about the desperation and horror that his parents were trying to escape from, the risks that they were prepared to take. It's just horrific.

    I'm ashamed the Australian government will not do their fair share to help these people. Anyone of us could be those people and the parent of a dead babe on the beach, lucky for us, we won the birth lottery.

    They are people - HUMAN BEINGS, how can we be not doing our bit, how can people just quite simply turn their backs on people. I just don't get it.

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    Default **trigger warning** Recent refugee incidents in Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by SixtiesChild View Post
    To clarify my point;
    Refugee burden can't fall on just a few countries. I do think Australia MUST help but I would like to see refugees properly helped. Not cooped up and left to fester. They should be allowed the dignity of being productive etc....in order to build a profitable life for themselves.
    Also, by definition I take the word 'Neighbor' quite seriously and I feel that countries in close proximity have a HUGE obligation to their brothers/sisters that live close by ESPECIALLY if they have similar customs.
    It seems that Jordan has risen to the occasion and I would expect those other countries that I mentioned earlier to do the same. Not because this is how I want it to be but because I know that in neighboring countries it is closer to their own culture and therefore the cultural shift is less shocking for them and they can find more in common and feel less detached.
    Customs and language barriers that are too different can cause a lot of ongoing sadness -especially when customs are poorly understood.

    I know because my parents were 6 year old children when they became displaced from Europe. Even their children can grow up scarred. The horror stories they have told me are not unlike what were seeing today.
    I totally disagree.

    Just because a country is close, doesn't mean the culture is. You can't tell me that PNG or Indonesia have similar customs to ours.

    Furthermore, I think your post also suggests that people of different cultures can't live here and "fit in" but I believe that majority of them do.

    I live in a neighbourhood that is very diverse and very harmonious. People of all different backgrounds live together. This is my neighbourhood. ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1441445709.391304.jpg


 
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