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  1. #251
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    Default **trigger warning** Recent refugee incidents in Europe

    I go away for a bit and come back to see KG has been asked to leave a thread. From the outsider perspective it appears some may have been baiting in their initial responses to KG (the need for politeness appears to only go one way -in favor of the majority - sometimes on the hub) which inflamed the situation.

    Just remember a little bit of non biatchy education can go a long way. I remember a similar thread a few years ago and I had some similar concerns to KG. It got pretty feisty however one or two members took the time to respectfully tell personal stories. I can't remember who those members were it was so long ago.
    And it may not have seemed like it at the time however I thought about those words, particularly in relation to the hopelessness asylum seekers face in first port (after fleeing their homeland) of call countries.

    So when the poor images of little Aylan popped up recently and the community got talking I was able to contribute some points to the conversation and have I think changed a few people's understanding. And a few of those people *may* be in a position to *maybe* do something to help (as opposed to offering armchair critique).

    So I suppose my point is being kind with your responses may actually help the people you want to help. Isolating members from a discussion should be an action of last resort (left to the mods) when there has been a clear breach of the rules.

    Make love not war.
    Last edited by VicPark; 09-09-2015 at 06:45.

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  3. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Thanks, I follow the ASRC on facebook. There was a lot of basic info that is not 'new' in the report (eg, asylum seekers are not illegal, queue jumpers, etc) - more suited to the "go back where you came from" type mentality. So there was nothing that really answered the questions I was asking.
    I did find it really interesting that they were defending the people smugglers in the report, with the basic gist being that people smugglers are not all "pay me everything you have & I will put you on this rickety boat with a promise of entry straight into Australia, no questions asked". People smugglers were painted as being altruistic in what they do, which I do find interesting and something to think about.
    Slightly OT but you might find this book an interesting read. True story of a man who got into people smuggling and why he did it. I'm not saying it applies to all people smugglers but it's definitely not something that's reported in the news or understood by people I know.
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  5. #253
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    That may be true VicPark, but while she may have had a name change, her attitudes steadfastly remain the same. I agree she shouldn't have been asked to leave the thread, but I also think she didn't come in here to contribute anything but her particular views and spout the same old rubbish we've all heard a bazillion times before. It gets tiresome when someone doesn't want to hear the other side or gain better knowledge/information on the subject, so I do understand why she was asked to leave.

    As for the refugees, we should be doing more. Tony Abbott has an appalling view on refugees. They are not "boat people", they are people. Full stop. For a man of such religious convictions, he shows no compassion or humanity toward those unlucky enough to not be born into a stable country. And to use a child's death to promote his views? Vile. He is a disgusting slug of a man and I can't wait to vote him out.

    It costs us BILLIONS to have our current processing systems, and I think we should chuck them and do something better with the money. We basically incarcerate them and that's it. Why not take a few dozen planes to somewhere like Jordan. Go to the refugee camps and bring home some of the families who have been there the longest? Surely their paperwork would have been vetted in 4 years. We could probably house a few dozen in the Lodge. After all, the PM chooses not to live there.

    If we did that, then maybe people wouldn't need to come by boat. They may stay in the camps in Indonesia if they knew we, and other countries, would look out for them, process them, and resettle them.

    I know we need infrastructure, support systems, finances etc in place, but we've known about this for years. Why is it taking so long to act?? People like George Clooney have been trying to get the worlds/governments attention about it for a long time. Did they listen? Not really.

    The photo of the little boy haunts me too. As did the one of the man holding his 2 children sobbing as he landed safely on the beach. I can't imagine how he must have felt, knowing that his kids were finally safe. And how devastated the other Dad is to have lost his whole family. Only those with the coldest hearts wouldn't be moved. Unfortunately, I think Tony has a cold, cold heart.

    I know this thread is about the current crisis, but I just feel we need to do more all round. We are more than willing to go in with guns blazing and tear these countries apart, less willing to do anything about the displaced people. I don't think anyone flees their country lightly. So whether a Syrian refugee in a camp, or an asylum seeker coming here by boat. We. Need. To. Do. Better.

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  7. #254
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  8. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Californication View Post
    That may be true VicPark, but while she may have had a name change, her attitudes steadfastly remain the same. I agree she shouldn't have been asked to leave the thread, but I also think she didn't come in here to contribute anything but her particular views and spout the same old rubbish we've all heard a bazillion times before. It gets tiresome when someone doesn't want to hear the other side or gain better knowledge/information on the subject, so I do understand why she was asked to leave.

    As for the refugees, we should be doing more. Tony Abbott has an appalling view on refugees. They are not "boat people", they are people. Full stop. For a man of such religious convictions, he shows no compassion or humanity toward those unlucky enough to not be born into a stable country. And to use a child's death to promote his views? Vile. He is a disgusting slug of a man and I can't wait to vote him out.

    It costs us BILLIONS to have our current processing systems, and I think we should chuck them and do something better with the money. We basically incarcerate them and that's it. Why not take a few dozen planes to somewhere like Jordan. Go to the refugee camps and bring home some of the families who have been there the longest? Surely their paperwork would have been vetted in 4 years. We could probably house a few dozen in the Lodge. After all, the PM chooses not to live there.

    If we did that, then maybe people wouldn't need to come by boat. They may stay in the camps in Indonesia if they knew we, and other countries, would look out for them, process them, and resettle them.

    I know we need infrastructure, support systems, finances etc in place, but we've known about this for years. Why is it taking so long to act?? People like George Clooney have been trying to get the worlds/governments attention about it for a long time. Did they listen? Not really.

    The photo of the little boy haunts me too. As did the one of the man holding his 2 children sobbing as he landed safely on the beach. I can't imagine how he must have felt, knowing that his kids were finally safe. And how devastated the other Dad is to have lost his whole family. Only those with the coldest hearts wouldn't be moved. Unfortunately, I think Tony has a cold, cold heart.

    I know this thread is about the current crisis, but I just feel we need to do more all round. We are more than willing to go in with guns blazing and tear these countries apart, less willing to do anything about the displaced people. I don't think anyone flees their country lightly. So whether a Syrian refugee in a camp, or an asylum seeker coming here by boat. We. Need. To. Do. Better.
    Posts like this are precisely the reason I am lurking and silently cheering. I don't need to say anything, this is perfect.

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  10. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I go away for a bit and come back to see KG has been asked to leave a thread. From the outsider perspective it appears some may have been baiting in their initial responses to KG (the need for politeness appears to only go one way -in favor of the majority - sometimes on the hub) which inflamed the situation.

    Just remember a little bit of non biatchy education can go a long way. I remember a similar thread a few years ago and I had some similar concerns to KG. It got pretty feisty however one or two members took the time to respectfully tell personal stories. I can't remember who those members were it was so long ago.
    And it may not have seemed like it at the time however I thought about those words, particularly in relation to the hopelessness asylum seekers face in first port (after fleeing their homeland) of call countries.

    So when the poor images of little Aylan popped up recently and the community got talking I was able to contribute some points to the conversation and have I think changed a few people's understanding. And a few of those people *may* be in a position to *maybe* do something to help (as opposed to offering armchair critique).

    So I suppose my point is being kind with your responses may actually help the people you want to help. Isolating members from a discussion should be an action of last resort (left to the mods) when there has been a clear breach of the rules.

    Make love not war.
    Totally agree.

    'Hate cannt drive out hate. Only love can do that." (Martin Luther King Jnr)

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  12. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    Thanks, I follow the ASRC on facebook. There was a lot of basic info that is not 'new' in the report (eg, asylum seekers are not illegal, queue jumpers, etc) - more suited to the "go back where you came from" type mentality. So there was nothing that really answered the questions I was asking.
    I did find it really interesting that they were defending the people smugglers in the report, with the basic gist being that people smugglers are not all "pay me everything you have & I will put you on this rickety boat with a promise of entry straight into Australia, no questions asked". People smugglers were painted as being altruistic in what they do, which I do find interesting and something to think about.
    There is a wealth of information on the ASRC, UNHCR and Amnesty International websites about a range of issue surrouding displaced people, detention as well as information regarding the history of detention in Australia on wikipedia.

    I'm not trying to be rude but asking questions and highlighting that PP's are not answering them really doesn't mean much or add anything to the debate - perhaps you can do your own research and come back in with some things which might be helpful to everybody.

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  14. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyla View Post
    There is a wealth of information on the ASRC, UNHCR and Amnesty International websites about a range of issue surrouding displaced people, detention as well as information regarding the history of detention in Australia on wikipedia.

    I'm not trying to be rude but asking questions and highlighting that PP's are not answering them really doesn't mean much or add anything to the debate - perhaps you can do your own research and come back in with some things which might be helpful to everybody.
    I think asking questions is generating healthy discussion? I do find it offensive and rude TBH. I dont think I am being "unhelpful", &the only time K specifically asked someone to respond was when they asked a question of me & then didnt respond to my answer. I have done heaps of research on this topic. It is an issue very close to my heart.

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  16. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I go away for a bit and come back to see KG has been asked to leave a thread. From the outsider perspective it appears some may have been baiting in their initial responses to KG (the need for politeness appears to only go one way -in favor of the majority - sometimes on the hub) which inflamed the situation.

    Just remember a little bit of non biatchy education can go a long way. I remember a similar thread a few years ago and I had some similar concerns to KG. It got pretty feisty however one or two members took the time to respectfully tell personal stories. I can't remember who those members were it was so long ago.
    And it may not have seemed like it at the time however I thought about those words, particularly in relation to the hopelessness asylum seekers face in first port (after fleeing their homeland) of call countries.

    So when the poor images of little Aylan popped up recently and the community got talking I was able to contribute some points to the conversation and have I think changed a few people's understanding. And a few of those people *may* be in a position to *maybe* do something to help (as opposed to offering armchair critique).

    So I suppose my point is being kind with your responses may actually help the people you want to help. Isolating members from a discussion should be an action of last resort (left to the mods) when there has been a clear breach of the rules.

    Make love not war.
    I remember that debate VP it was with @hollygolightly and myself in 2013. It was an epic debate over days and maybe even weeks. It certainly pi$$ed my DH off spending so much time online.

    I don't agree that it's always up to the mods. Yes their role is a formal role to pull peoples heads in however a forum like this is often self moderated to some extent. If a member comes in with blatantly antagonistic "catch phrases" which are designed to get the ire of members and without any sort of interest in actual debate then I would expect the community to jump in and say not ok. Which is what happened.

    Peace.

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  18. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeeeesecake View Post
    I think asking questions is generating healthy discussion? I do find it offensive and rude TBH. I dont think I am being "unhelpful", &the only time K specifically asked someone to respond was when they asked a question of me & then didnt respond to my answer. I have done heaps of research on this topic. It is an issue very close to my heart.
    Sorry you think it's rude - not my intention at all.

    Anyway peeps I'm out. I have no ill will to anyone in this thread. The nature of debate threads is they get heated and as I suggested in my above post my DH is already over my arguing (I say debating ) online.

    See ya all around the hub

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