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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    No need for a spin off. What do you think is taken out of context?
    It's the article that holly has linked to that I disagree with, not the study itself.

    Eg the article says: "Proponents of sleep training may want to find a new day job."

    I feel the author of the article has set the scene incorrectly. Yes the study says the 'type of sleeper' a baby is, is genetic. Tick. I absolutely 100% agree.

    However the study isn't saying as the article author implies that sleep training is fruitless at all, it just says that the babies sleep habits are genetic ie. both parents are quite wakeful so therefore their children are likely to be wakeful. I agree.

    But it doesn't really say that those children (in the scenario I've made up above) can't become 'better sleepers'. The reason I am saying this is because in the research they constantly refer to "Consolidated nighttime sleep duration." It's all about how wakeful a child is. It doesn't say whether that child is able to wake up, wriggle around a bit, get comfy and fall back asleep on it's own. It also doesn't say that because they do wake often that they can't be sleep trained (correct me if I'm wrong or I've missed something in the study) But I further think this because what it does say in the Conclusions section is that...."Results need to be replicated with objective sleep measures and more studies are needed to identify the biological mechanisms contributing to short-persistent night time sleep duration in early childhood. Future studies will be needed to understand which family settings seem to play a role in day time sleep duration during early childhood.
    Future investigations will also be needed to identify the genetic mechanisms contributing to short-persistent night time sleep duration in early childhood and beyond to promote the development of adequate treatment modalities."

    Development of adequate treatment modalities to me says development of suitable ways to treat the short "consolidated nighttime sleep duration". Ie suitable sleep training methods (should a parent be struggling and need their child to sleep better of course!)

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    It's all about how wakeful a child is. It doesn't say whether that child is able to wake up, wriggle around a bit, get comfy and fall back asleep on it's own. It also doesn't say that because they do wake often that they can't be sleep trained (correct me if I'm wrong or I've missed something in the study)
    Valid point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    While I agree that the conclusion drawn is probably true, I wish that study had more information. It isn't at all convincing to me. Do they mean they studied the similarities in the twins' sleep patterns and them only? How did they rule out other possible causative factors such as environment etc.? How did they define 'waking' in the night - was it stirring or fully waking? Did one twin crying and therefore waking the other twin affect results any? Was there a comparison/analysis of the parent sleeping habits? Were the twins identical or fraternal? Did twins have siblings and did they display similar results?
    -)
    Glad I wasn't the only numpty confused by the article

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    Default New study finds genetics is what decides how well your baby sleeps.

    I'm out right now as it's Saturday for me, so will come back later but I'm fairly certain the study does explain how many 'types of twins' they had and it does state that sleep training does work for some children. And I don't think I've read many studies that say they are completely conclusive in their results.

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    The study did discuss wakefulness in the night and included some videoed sleeping to compare to what the parents said in the questionnaire, to what actually happened. It concluded that most/all children woke during the night, however there were two categories of children - signallers and non-signallers. Non-signallers were able to fall back to sleep on their own while signallers required some adult intervention.

    In terms of @harvs question regarding the twin types. The studied included both identical and non-identical twins (the researchers just used a different name for them). The environment factors were therefore 'controlled' in each twin and the genetics controlled by comparing an identical set of twins with a non-identical.

    Of course the research suggests more research. However it seems a fairly good methodology and covers most of the factors that people have raised so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Nette View Post
    The study did discuss wakefulness in the night and included some videoed sleeping to compare to what the parents said in the questionnaire, to what actually happened. It concluded that most/all children woke during the night, however there were two categories of children - signallers and non-signallers. Non-signallers were able to fall back to sleep on their own while signallers required some adult intervention.

    In terms of @harvs question regarding the twin types. The studied included both identical and non-identical twins (the researchers just used a different name for them). The environment factors were therefore 'controlled' in each twin and the genetics controlled by comparing an identical set of twins with a non-identical.

    Of course the research suggests more research. However it seems a fairly good methodology and covers most of the factors that people have raised so far.
    Thanks DJ, I thought that's what I understood from it as well. Also, if I recall you work in science/research right? ☺️

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Thanks DJ, I thought that's what I understood from it as well. Also, if I recall you work in science/research right? ☺️
    Wow, I didn't think anyone noticed me . I'm an engineer and do a bit of research in my day job. Also did a bit of research for my Masters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Nette View Post
    Wow, I didn't think anyone noticed me . I'm an engineer and do a bit of research in my day job. Also did a bit of research for my Masters.
    You used to chime in in the environmental threads of yore ☺️

    (Ps is 'yore' the right spelling 😳)

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  13. #69
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    Default New study finds genetics is what decides how well your baby sleeps.

    Thanks @DJ Nette, I don't know how I missed the link to the actual study. So I will amend my response to - I didn't like the article :-) I love reading studies so will get onto it.

    It's Saturday for me too Miss Holly - I just have Jo life.

    ETA I mean no life. I don't know who Jo is :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    Thanks @DJ Nette, I don't know how I missed the link to the actual study. So I will amend my response to - I didn't like the article :-) I love reading studies so will get onto it.

    It's Saturday for me too Miss Holly - I just have Jo life.

    ETA I mean no life. I don't know who Jo is :-)
    I meant Saturday DAY 😉


 

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