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  1. #21
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    DS, 15 co-slept till he was 5 and didn't sleep through until then now he is an awesome sleeper, DD 12 months will not sleep anywhere but her own cot, has never slept through she still wakes once every night. Im ok with this because for the first 10 months she was awake at least 5 times for reassurance or hunger. Some nights she will still have a bottle through the night. She has 2 day naps 1-1.5 hours in the morning and 1-2 hours in the afternoon. She goes down at 6pm, if she has a bottle through the night she'll sleep till 6 if not then up between 430/5.

    It will pass. I have come to the conclusion also that not all kids sleep! 😆😆

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    Default Not every child will sleep

    Quote Originally Posted by hollygolightly81 View Post
    sonja actually acknowledged in her next comment that parents should still try to see if changing 'environmental' factors help. No one's denying that vp. But honestly, you and tizzie are not experts or researchers on child development and actual experts in those areas claim waking is normal and *usually* means nothing is *wrong* with your parenting or your child.
    Just read the follow on comments now

    I haven't mentioned any external sleep gurus and I'm certainly not claiming to be an expert. I will suggest that *if* a parent has reached their threshold and would like assistance then to include (not exclude) in that discussion parents like myself with kids that sleep through.

    I stand by my original comments - if an older kid without medical conditions is consistently waking at night (requiring adult intervention) then yes it is within the parents power to change this. Not easy but do-able.
    I will add that it doesn't mean a parent with older kids that wake at night isn't a great parent, not at all. Just that they either probably have too much on their plate to focus on the intricacies of one child's sleep habits or other areas of parenting (education, care, being fun) are probably areas they most excel at.
    Last edited by VicPark; 11-08-2015 at 07:17.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by HappyBovine View Post
    As a mother of four, I couldn't agree more.

    I just want to add my own:

    Co sleeping and breastfeeding to sleep will not hinder a child's ability to self settle and sleep in their own beds.
    I didn't even know breastfeeding to sleep was supposed to hinder anything. It's the only way DS goes to sleep currently...

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  5. #24
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    I'd also like to add that it is possible for a child to be fed/rocked to sleep and then resettle by themselves later through the night. I'm sure some babies become dependent on the "sleep aid", but some don't and it never becomes a " bad" habit.

    I think I'm fortunate in a way that my first slept through from early on. That way I have never blamed myself for DS being a pretty ordinary night sleeper.

    He's just gone into a big bed. The first couple of nights were bad, but after that he's "slept through" for the past 6 nights (new record!!!). However, when I got up to pee at 2am, I noticed his light was on. Checked on him and he was sound asleep tucked up in his doona. So he'd still woken overnight, just hadn't disturbed anyone. Obviously he's just one of those kids who has a cycle of coming to full wakefulness each night.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    Thank you.

    I feel like in hindsight (and I should add, DS sleeps through almost all the time now but is still usually very resistant to sleep and can be up late if he has napped late, but it's a trade off I will accept!) my desperation to get DS sleeping through made my fatigue and anxiety around it all worse than if I had just accepted that he probably wouldn't.

    That was a very long sentence.
    This! Now I've come to terms with waking through the night I'm much less stressed and anxious about it.

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    Couldn't agree more! Blanket statements about babies, especially about sleep, are utterly ridiculous and completely false.

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Ok I know you asked me to stay out of this thread but I am going to ignore that as I consider posting on an online forum and then asking someone to stay out of it because you disagree with their views to not being reasonable. I will however try my best to be respectful as overall you are a not a bad egg.

    I stand by what I said in the other thread. If older kids are consistently waking multiple times per night and there are no medical issues (physical or mental) then 9.5/10 the wakings are due to environmental factors (routine, timing of first day nap, temperature, aiding to sleep, too much day nap, parents response upon night waking ) that have may have become an entrenched habit and with a little tweaking can be reversed (eg if a child is cold grab a warmer doona or get a thermostat controlled heater).

    I will add that it's not easy to reverse the trend of an older kid waking at night - especially if more than one environmental factor is involved. It can take 2-3 days to form a habit but weeks or months to break one. So consistency and trying to nip any sleep issues in the bud at the earliest possible opportunity (when bub is still a bub) is key. If a parent is happy with the night wakings and doesn't feel the need to stop them thats ok too.

    Best of luck and as you said you don't want specific advice so I'm not going to offer it. Feel free to PM me if you change your mind I am more than happy to try and help.
    I have no issue with your opinions here, and you have been incredibly generous with your advice and suggestions to others numerous times on the hub.

    I won't lie, I have tried many of your suggestions and some made a positive difference, although DS just simply didn't sleep through until just after he started walking, which is well after he had started to self-settle at nap time and bed time.

    Where I do have an issue, is this 9.5/10 figure than you generally offer. I'm not sure what empirical evidence based study you're basing this on, but unless you have some solid evidence behind you I really think you could offer all of the support without throwing that 'stat' in. It's that assertion that has left me and I'm sure many others in a an absolute tizz (no pun) of anxiety and feeling like a failure.

    But I know @Sonja didn't intend this to be a debate thread, I just wish you would leave out that part :-)

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  12. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I have no issue with your opinions here, and you have been incredibly generous with your advice and suggestions to others numerous times on the hub.

    I won't lie, I have tried many of your suggestions and some made a positive difference, although DS just simply didn't sleep through until just after he started walking, which is well after he had started to self-settle at nap time and bed time.

    Where I do have an issue, is this 9.5/10 figure than you generally offer. I'm not sure what empirical evidence based study you're basing this on, but unless you have some solid evidence behind you I really think you could offer all of the support without throwing that 'stat' in. It's that assertion that has left me and I'm sure many others in a an absolute tizz (no pun) of anxiety and feeling like a failure.

    But I know @Sonja didn't intend this to be a debate thread, I just wish you would leave out that part :-)
    Ok I will leave 9.5 out of 10 as I plucked that figure in a poor attempt to illustrate my point that most older kids without medical issues are capable if sleeping through without adult intervention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScubaGal View Post
    I didn't even know breastfeeding to sleep was supposed to hinder anything. It's the only way DS goes to sleep currently...
    Me too.... I wasn't worried before and now the post which is supposed to make me not worried is starting to worry me!!

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    Default Not every child will sleep

    I don't think it's as black and white as either the Sonja's camp or VPs camp claim it to be.

    I sit more toward VPs camp, but agree with her in the vast vast majority if cases (I won't out a figure on it if that doesn't sit well with the essence of this thread). The amount of my friends I've seen and parents at work and on here who all claimed to have bad sleepers, all became good sleepers after *something* changed. In these anecdotal cases the changes I have been made aware of have been anything from tonsils out, an undiagnosed food intolerance, a bad sleep association (fed to sleep - and gently weaned off it), a 'naughty' child who had no boundaries (CIO helped him), weaned off a dummy, and put in their own room.

    There are many experts who agree with VP, it's not just her after reading TH, her theory is widely accepted. I however am not so black and white hence the vast, vast majority of cases I've mentioned (and no this hasn't been formed by scientific research only my observations above coupled with the many many experts who agree with VP AND that BH isn't a true reflection if the general population - eg lots of bad sleepers in BH land only translates to some bad sleepers IRL) is because there are children out there I believe who don't have a physical or mental illness / problem who are a little more dependent upon their parents affections and cuddles to get back to sleep. Can those kids be 'changed' my feeling is potentially but I don't know every child that has ever lived so I won't say so black and white that they can.
    Last edited by A-Squared; 11-08-2015 at 07:49.

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