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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I totally think she was p!ssed off about your constant using of a false stat and insistence on the belief that all children can be sleep trained. I'm not blind. But she was p!ssed off because she knows how many new moms take those types of comments to heart thinking they must being doing something wrong so she started a thread for the moms doubting themselves to go. The double standards of hub behaviour right now is hilarious.
    I was going to stay out of this thread after my apology - again fallen on deaf ears - offering an olive branch to say sorry if I've upset anyone..... . The double standard IS hilarious! Every single poster in this thread is setting a double standard. Everyone!

    The 'bad sleepers can't be changed' people expect VP to not be so black and white and to stop quoting a 'stat' - you're all saying hey VP you are - WRONG! Can't you just get rid of your stat, it's cr*p and upsets people. So standard from those people = hey "change your views" so that struggling mums don't get upset.

    Yet when VP sticks to her guns or someone agrees that yes a vast majority of children can be sleep trained into good children she wants someone to change their views and say you know what maybe your bad sleeper can be sleep trained, she is asking of those others in the thread to change their views so her standard = hey "change your views" so that struggling mums who want to change their sleep believe they can not just throw their hands up and accept a bad sleeper if they're crinically sleep deprived.

    So in summary, both sides are asking the other side to change their views but apparently the only ones who are allowed to do so is those in the first goop if people = double standard.

    Yep I agree holly the double standard IS plucking hilarious!

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  3. #152
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    There used to be a sleep vent thread. It was great. Lots of us sleep deprived mummies venting to each other about how tired we were. .are... etc etc.
    I can't find it now. must be hanging around somewhere.

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  5. #153
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    Default Not every child will sleep

    Quote Originally Posted by LoveLivesHere View Post
    Let's face it vp.
    No matter how many times parents tell you they don't want your advice, you still disrespect them with you passive aggressive post well if you do PM me and we will brain storm ideas.
    While that offer is great if someone wants help but someone has already said they don't want it because their kids are normal. It comes across as a passive aggressive dig at them.
    Hey any offers to help are genuine and not passive agressive (apologies if it has come accross that way). I am saddened that people assume my intentions are not good but will strive for better wording in the future to try and prevent any misunderstanding.

    To those that have already Pm'd me apologies if my responses are slow (back at work and all). Trying to clear my mailbox too over the next day or so as every few messages I can't send anything due to it being full.

  6. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Sorry Holy if you think that was the only original intention of this thread, and that there was no element of the OP being cranky and wanting to use it as an opportunity to publicly 'stick it' to me then I think you have blinkers on.
    Absolutely not. I was not having a bad day, I was actually having a great day. I saw your statement in the other thread that you make constantly about every child being capable of sleeping through unless medical reasons. A statement you have made over and over. And I said I was going to create a new thread because I do not agree. You effectively then challenged me to. At that point I said please stay out as I was creating a thread to express a different point of view which is one you can NEVER agree with. No one is saying you or any one on here are cruel or mean to your kids. There was no attack on you so no reason for you to feel attacked.

    You will never agree with anyone on this thread @VicPark. No matter how many different ways we explain why our kids are fine and ok and night waking on occasion is perfectly normal. You will never ever agree. So why come into this thread and start the same arguments you make again and again?

    So no despite you wanting to think every comment with a different opinion to you is because the poster is cranky I'm not. At least I wasn't when I started this thread. But as with so many o think who get involved in debates with you I am now.

    So can we go back to letting people talk about their kids and what is normal for them.

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  8. #155
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    I am a little bit on the fence about this one. Lots of posts on this thread (and I'm not really referring to the OP here) have basically quoted things VP specifically has said in the past and it's obvious to me that that's what is going on. It feels like people are talking about her, not to her. I can understand why VP would feel inclined to contribute to this thread - I sure would! So that's not really that cool with me.
    @Sonja has set up a thread for like minded people to share their stories - I don't think it should be taken as an opportunity to bash other views whether directly or passive aggressively. But at the same time I am disappointed VP that you consciously or unconsciously ignored the purpose of this thread and it has gone this inevitable way. Maybe the end of the previous thread fired you up a little so you were a bit blinkered when you read the OP?

    Anyway, I've said my piece. I know people won't agree with me, but that's cool. FWIW I don't expect people to change their views but I do ask them to respect the sanctity of statistics :-)

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  10. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    I was going to stay out of this thread after my apology - again fallen on deaf ears - offering an olive branch to say sorry if I've upset anyone..... . The double standard IS hilarious! Every single poster in this thread is setting a double standard. Everyone!

    The 'bad sleepers can't be changed' people expect VP to not be so black and white and to stop quoting a 'stat' - you're all saying hey VP you are - WRONG! Can't you just get rid of your stat, it's cr*p and upsets people. So standard from those people = hey "change your views" so that struggling mums don't get upset.

    Yet when VP sticks to her guns or someone agrees that yes a vast majority of children can be sleep trained into good children she wants someone to change their views and say you know what maybe your bad sleeper can be sleep trained, she is asking of those others in the thread to change their views so her standard = hey "change your views" so that struggling mums who want to change their sleep believe they can not just throw their hands up and accept a bad sleeper if they're crinically sleep deprived.

    So in summary, both sides are asking the other side to change their views but apparently the only ones who are allowed to do so is those in the first goop if people = double standard.

    Yep I agree holly the double standard IS plucking hilarious!
    You keep saying this despite me saying last night it is not about anyone being wrong.

    Ok I'll explain finally.

    I keep using VP as my go to so I'm sorry as I'm sure there are others on here.

    She has been quoting stats at parents for years now about her views on the effect of sleep training. Stats that most experts wouldn't even agree with (and I'm not considering people who make money out of sleep deprived new parents experts. They are not. I am talking about the people who run sleep clinics and actually get degrees in this area).

    Even they acknowledge that yes the majority of kids can be "helped" to sleep better but at certain times of their lives those kids will still wake. Even the links you gave acknowledged that. In my case with 4 kids a night or two once or twice a week can add up to a lot of waking over the course of a week. And it's fine.

    It's just a simple fact. I often change my views about things as I grow as a parent and my kids age. I would never be so confident to assume I have all the answers. If tweaking routines made them sleep through consistently I'd do it. Heck I have done it. But it didn't have the desired effect.

    That's all.

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  12. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I am a little bit on the fence about this one. Lots of posts on this thread (and I'm not really referring to the OP here) have basically quoted things VP specifically has said in the past and it's obvious to me that that's what is going on. It feels like people are talking about her, not to her. I can understand why VP would feel inclined to contribute to this thread - I sure would! So that's not really that cool with me.
    @Sonja has set up a thread for like minded people to share their stories - I don't think it should be taken as an opportunity to bash other views whether directly or passive aggressively. But at the same time I am disappointed VP that you consciously or unconsciously ignored the purpose of this thread and it has gone this inevitable way. Maybe the end of the previous thread fired you up a little so you were a bit blinkered when you read the OP?

    Anyway, I've said my piece. I know people won't agree with me, but that's cool. FWIW I don't expect people to change their views but I do ask them to respect the sanctity of statistics :-)
    Harvs I accept that as it's a topic people are passionate about. I did acknowledge that polite discussion was fine and I didn't have any problem with that.

    However if It's just going to be like watching a tennis match ("I think this" "I don't agree" "I think that" "I don't agree") then haven't we had about eleventy millions threads that already have done that. It would be nice to move on from that as it goes nowhere.

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  14. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Absolutely not. I was not having a bad day, I was actually having a great day. I saw your statement in the other thread that you make constantly about every child being capable of sleeping through unless medical reasons. A statement you have made over and over. And I said I was going to create a new thread because I do not agree. You effectively then challenged me to. At that point I said please stay out as I was creating a thread to express a different point of view which is one you can NEVER agree with. No one is saying you or any one on here are cruel or mean to your kids. There was no attack on you so no reason for you to feel attacked.

    You will never agree with anyone on this thread @VicPark. No matter how many different ways we explain why our kids are fine and ok and night waking on occasion is perfectly normal. You will never ever agree. So why come into this thread and start the same arguments you make again and again?

    So no despite you wanting to think every comment with a different opinion to you is because the poster is cranky I'm not. At least I wasn't when I started this thread. But as with so many o think who get involved in debates with you I am now.

    So can we go back to letting people talk about their kids and what is normal for them.
    Yes I agree we will never agree on this issue. Seriously though...If you wanted me to stay out of the thread and not feel attacked then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my words from a previous thread followed by "rant over." I am stumped at how this is being glossed over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yes I agree we will never agree on this issue. Seriously though...If you wanted me to stay out of the thread and not feel attacked then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my words from a previous thread followed by "rant over." I am stumped at how this is being glossed over.
    She asked you to stay out of it

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  17. #160
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    Default Not every child will sleep

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Yes I agree we will never agree on this issue. Seriously though...If you wanted me to stay out of the thread and not feel attacked then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my words from a previous thread followed by "rant over." I am stumped at how this is being glossed over.
    Ok if it wasn't clear. If you are not prepared to open your mind on this topic stay out of it.

    Hopefully we are all clear now.


 

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