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  1. #181
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    Sorry to thread crash Girls, I sent @Sue77 over here to you Lovelies for your expert advice/opinions. Any help you can give her will be gratefully received as she's really confused and anxious as this is all new to her.

    Thanks so much Lovelies for your help, I so appreciate it to you all!!!
    Last edited by BlondeinBrisvegas; 19-08-2015 at 08:16.

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to BlondeinBrisvegas For This Useful Post:

    Charlie74  (18-08-2015),Sue77  (19-08-2015)

  3. #182
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    I haven't been on this thread for a while. I just saw the post by @Sue77. I can't just read and run. LB has a very good reputation. It is good of her to proactive in your case. There is another Dr (Dr Nick L) in Melbourne who can administer thing like intralipid. However, I don't know how far he goes about immune protocol. Do you remember what Dr LB has tested you? From the sound of it, your CD 57 is based on BT. ~17% is on the borderline, according to DrBeer's book. If i remember correctly, that's my BT level as well. Unfortunately, I don't know what did the trick for me because I pretty much threw everything in for my last two cycles. However, I didn't follow DrM protocol but my FS. That's because I know my main problem is slightly elevated ANA (1:80) and CD 57. I did a endo scratch (biopsy) with DrM. Since no one can interpret the result but him. I kinda just dismiss it. I reckon it isn't too high as compared to some ladies here. Your FS can do endo scratch for you and send for testing if you wish but if you already have decided to do the immune protocol, there is no reason to go through the pain with endo scratch.

    It is a difficult question to answer if an aggressive protocol is needed. All these immune protocols are trial and error. There is no guarantee that it will work the first time. I have known two ladies here, one with imbalance Nk cells and one with super high NK cell (higher than 17%) in blood. The former lady tried the standard immune protocol + intralipid. The later lady tried standard protocol only through her FS. Both resulted in a pregnancy and a live birth. It is a personal choice in the end. I didn't want to go down the aggressive path and thus followed my FS protocol (aka bondi protocol) with the addition of intralipid. It isn't much different than what DrM suggestion. To me, 20mg prednisolone has done enough damage to my long term health. I got full on side effect with it. Standard protocol includes predinsoline, clexane and high dose progesterone. Intralipid depends on the Dr.

    As for DrM script, you don't need to give it to LB. You can just get them from the pharmacy.
    Last edited by bbhope; 18-08-2015 at 23:33.

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    Sue77  (20-08-2015)

  5. #183
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    HI, I can't answer your question about your blood work, but I too was with LB. In some respects, I had a wonderful experience with her. Over two cycles, I got 21 embryos to blast so lots in the freezer to work with. But, having said that, I then couldn't stay pregnant with PGD tested embryos. First I had a chemical and then a miscarriage. LB was stumped and, like you, also sent me to an immunologist. I did consult with him but I also consulted with a specialist in the US. It's a long story but at that point I had a *horrible* experience with LB and switched docs to NL. I don't think I was ever going to get pregnant if I stayed with her.

    LB won't do intralipids. If you want to go down that route, you can switch over to NL or maybe fly out to Sydney and simply do the intralipids with Dr M? As far as testing and aggressive immune protocols, NL is somewhere between Dr M and LB. He does less testing than Dr M (from what I can tell, not having been a Dr M patient), but is willing to try more/different drugs than LB.

    Of course all of this depends on your comfort level. I was at first hesitant to go beyond a low dose of pred and clexane but, as it turned out, that combo simply wasn't working for me. I'm now willing to do a higher dose of pred and intralipids and some other stuff, if necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue77 View Post
    Hi ladies
    I am new to this thread but not new to IVF. I am based in Melbourne. Was with Melbourne IVF earlier , had bfp twice with them but miscarried due to random chromosomal abnormalities. Shifted to Monash IVF and new FS LB who is supposed to be the best in business in Melbourne. She managed to make blastocysts for us. We did pgd and got 2 normals as well . In total we made 6 blasts with her in 3 cycles . 4 untested and 2 tested and normal . Have transferred 4 in 4. Different cycles but bfn. And even she also doesn't know the reasons why we ar e not achieving results even after transferring normal blasts. Anyways Dr M was suggested to me by some one else on the other thread which I did. she wanted me to see this doc before quitting. So I had a phone consult with Dr M who wanted me to have some blood tests which I did

    I had my phone consult with Dr M yesterday regarding the blood tests he had made me do. And according to him my natural killer cells CD 57 are raised . He said the normal ones should be between5 to 6 percent , mine came out as 17.3 percent and it could definitely impact my implantation. Sohehas put me on a very aggressive immune protocol with 20mg prednisolone and 25 mg after ET , clexane starting ten days before ET and the intralipid infusion abt a week before ET and if I get a bfp then abt 2 more intralipid or IVIG. And he clearly said there is no point transferring embies without this and even if I fall pregnant naturally I have to do this as soon as my bfp is confirmed.

    i told him that LB had checked me for nk cells and all in her initial tests she does and he said those tests are very general and the ones he did are very much in detail. I also asked him how come Implantation had happened to me twice a couple of years ago , he said nk cells can change anytime , some ladies have one kid and then they are unble to achieve a second pregnancy due to elevated nk cells.

    i am so confused and stressed as to what to do now? Is 17.3 really too high that implantation can't happen? I have no clue and knowledge abt nk cells , but the fact that 4 blasts didn't implant with LB (2 were pgd tested normal) puts me in doubt and She also told referred me to a immunologist in Melbourne to check everything . But I wanted to go o someone recommended by somebody . So I went to Dr M as many girls on BH had used him. Now I am expecting my period around 25 th of this month and plan to do the fet with our last 2 left , and Dr M is going to send me scripts for everything and told me to give it to my doc . how does that work ? How do I give it to LB? Do I really need to do this aggressive protocol with my numbers? So many questions in my mind... Sorry ladies for the long post but don't know whom to ask and rely upon without you wonderful ladies ...

    Also one thing is doing my head in ... How much is considered too high in CdD 57 cells. Is mine at 17.3 percent too high to go through this aggressive protocol?



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    Charlie74  (19-08-2015)

  7. #184
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    I cant speak for Dr NL but they are many ladies in Melbourne consulted both drM and DrNL at the same time. It is financially unrealistic to fly out to Syd just to do intralipid. I am from Perth. I know some ladies were doing that last year, including myself. Luckily, we now have one that's doing it here. A lot of Perth ladies just do phone consult with drM and do the intralipid locally. Most of us consult both. DrM is just along the side with IVF if you know what I mean. Good luck!

  8. #185
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    I actually have not consulted with Dr M but I would imagine that is a possibility--ie working with the two of them. I don't know though how NL would react to a patient consulting with Dr M too. I may be tempted to do it on the sly. To be honest, I have not fully decided on my next step. I am going to do another FET with a real immune protocol this time around and, if that doesn't work (which I kind of expect it not to), then I'll either consult with Dr M or with Dr B in New York and take it from there. It's all so frustrating.

    I hear you about being freaked out about what is going on with your body! I felt very much the same way for a long time. If you decide to go with Dr M, I would be curious to hear about your experience working with him from Melbourne.



    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie74 View Post
    @USHMM, I'm also an LB patient & I have a phone appt with Dr M early sept. I have a very worrying ANA of 2560, & still awaiting antiphospolipid results. Not only am I nervous about all the fertility issues, I'm also now increasingly scared of WTF is going with my body.

    So did u see Dr M & then get the treatment via Dr L?? That's wot has been suggested to me is a possible was of doing things??

  9. #186
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    @Sue77 I wanted to jump in as well as I can hear the stress in your post... I was successful with Dr M after 6 failed PGD embryos. I experienced no side effects / complications from the drugs for me or DS. Also 22 weeks pregnant with number two (slightly more aggressive protocol). Basically Intralipids is egg and soy so very few side effects. I was also worried about the prednisolone but it doesn't cross the placenta so does not harm the baby, I just had mild insomnia and increased appetite!!

    Also not sure about NK cell levels as mine were tested in WA but my specialist here said my recent blood ones were not that high...

    Anyway tough decision but I went with Dr M as I kept thinking that these 'perfect' PGD embryos should be implanting. I definitely think he was the reason behind my success

    Good Luck

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  11. #187
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    @MGCBertie congrats on the arrival of Josephine. What a precious, long awaited bundle!! xxx

  12. #188
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    Default Question about testing during pregnancy

    HI Ladies,

    I am considering consulting with Dr M if my next FET (with pred/intralipids/neupogen/clexane etc) is a bust. Can I ask a question though: does he test during pregnancy and adjust medication accordingly? Also, how does his testing work? I thought a lot of these immune tests aren't available here in Australia (TNF, Th1/Th2 etc). Does he send them out to Chicago?

    For the longest time I've felt as we have been simply and blindly throwing medication at the "problem" but without knowing the source of the problem. Recently, I did a lap and my doctor found mild endo and high uterine NK cells. So at least some of hte problems have been identified! But I also wonder if they run deeper and I should be doing more extensive testing.

    Thanks so much for any advice you can offer.

  13. #189
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    Thanks for this. I have a question: did they tell Dr NL that they are consulting with Dr M? I think I may do this as well, possibly.

  14. #190
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    Hi ladies, I just wanted to see is anyone else is in a similar boat. I have a complicated history with IVF ICSI for my daughter in 2013 for PCOS and hypothyroidism and DH poor motility. I have been on metformin 850mg bd, thyroxine 150-200mcg and aspirin. When she was 12 months we fell pregnant naturally and we sadly lost our baby at 9 weeks with a missed miscarriage. I was then diagnosed with hashimotos disease. I fell pregnant again naturally in March and started on prednisolone 5mg but that pregnancy also ended in miscarriage at 6 weeks. I have since found a new fertility specialist who has me on prednisolone 10mg BD and clexane 40mg daily from ovulation til negative pregnancy test or 10 weeks. I've had a funny week with a borderline OPK , massive mid cycle bleed (never happened before), Ultrasound couldn't even find a corpus luteum and bloods are borderline, so likely ruptured ovarian cyst. I am finding that the steroids are playing havoc with me. I can't quench my thirst, I'm bloated and constipated (I usually go 3 times a day) as far my head is always aching like a hangover without the fun night before! Do others have any similar symptoms? Sorry for the long post, I'm just struggling. I'm hoping to find support here and of course support women going through similar journeys xx


 

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