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  1. #111
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    In terms of this being an equity/unfair issue. I don't see it as that as no one is being deprived of something they need, unless they are working, studying, looking for work or at risk. It is not a judgement. It is a financial issue for me. Full stop.

    If this extends to Preschool, this is something children need, there is evidence to back this up, then for me it would become a philosophical argument, currently, I am assuming the universal access of Preschool for 15 hours a week will continue, so I am discussing it from this point.

    I may not have made myself perfectly clear, but this is where I stand.

    Yes *subsidised care*, if people are paying, that is their choice. I am speaking purely from a government subsidy perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnaby View Post
    That is a very short sighted view. children are only daycare age for a few short years. Keeping women skilled and in the workforce (even if they are only part time) is a necessity and makes complete financial sense. Think of their contributions to their super, this alone is huge.
    I think you've misunderstood me. I 100% support rebates for working mums, and for them to stay in the work force for all the reasons NotetoSelf outlined and more. I'm playing Devil's Advocate to the idea that SAHM's shouldn't get rebates bc it's too expensive given they don't work. My argument is if the govt is coming from an economically rationalist POV, that mums earning under that amount are also a drain. I'm not saying I believe that. Just that if we are going to apply one rule to SAHm's then applying it to working mums should only be fair. If this is about saving money as Abbott says it is. Then maybe the rule should be that you only get the rebate if you pay over 7500 in tax.

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  4. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dollypops View Post
    What happens if you are on maternity leave? Will there be a limit on how long they will subsidise? Will we lose our rebate if we have say 18 months off? Or have to give up our spots while on maternity leave if we can't pay full fees while on mat leave? Not sure if this has been answered yet..
    Not sure if this has been answered but I'm fairly certain that under the current scheme you can only receive the rebate if you are on paid or unpaid leave for 12mo. After that you're on your own..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    In terms of this being an equity/unfair issue. I don't see it as that as no one is being deprived of something they need, unless they are working, studying, looking for work or at risk. It is not a judgement. It is a financial issue for me. Full stop.
    Define need though? The Fiji family don't 'need' the trip. People don't 'need' a million dollar mortgage. Yet the tax payer funds them to help pay for those things.

    Anyhoo, it's been interesting to discuss with you. I'm off to feed my face

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  8. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    I don't know how else it can be done, aside from knocking down the whole system and having a purely government funded early education scheme like public schools.
    This is exactly what I think they should do. But what government would actually put that much money & effort into rebuilding the system?

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    @delerium...my head is going to explode. I am not an economist, but I really think that any economist would say the Child Care rebate money is best directed into the workforce rather than the SAHP. But I am happy to be corrected.

    @AdornedWithCats...no government. We are too far down the privatised path. I saw a quote from the owner of on of the big CC chains who had a 3 billion dollar turnover last year saying that it was a terrible policy...of course he thinks that...how much of his 3 billion dollars came from CCR or CCB. Imagine redirecting that 3 billion dollars to a CC in every school grounds.

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    @NoteToSelf $3 billion - that is ridiculous. A cc in every public primary school would be great.

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    Absolutely!

    It reminds me of the water tank rebate QLD had years ago in the drought. The rebate was (from memory) $1000.....every water tank place sold a tank and pump for $1000, they knew no one cared as you got the money straight back from the government. Cue the rebate ending, tanks and pumps back down to market rate. Rebates do not work.

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    Child care centres are not necessarily making a lot in profits. their costs are very high.

    a centre that has 50 kids, charging $140 per day 5 days a week has a turnover of $1.8m - but still likely doesnt make a huge profit.

    At that kind of revenue - a chain earning $3b in turnover would need 1650 centres ... I dont know any chain that big but its possible ABC was before its demise.

    This study from 2011 gives an overview of the industry, and says Revenue is approx $7.3bn - with profit of $22m. Not a particularly good rate of return by any means

    http://g8education.edu.au/wp-content...main-small.pdf

    I dont know the answers to what subsidies should be available. I think honestly - the government should look at other areas to find cuts. I believe that childcare should be available to everyone ... regardless of work status.

    I do think if hte government were to make child care non-FBT then more workplaces would provide on-site child care which would benefit everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    to even break even to pay for the CCR they recieve tax wise, women need to be earning around 50+k a year. Most working mums I know are not earning more than that. It could be argued that in these cases the tax payer is funding these women to top up the family income. They are receiving the rebates but not paying the tax. Where is the line? If this is about $$$ do we only fund CCR for women paying over 7500 a year in tax? Otherwise you can argue they are a drain just like the sahm's getting ccb.


    For me it's not just about benfits in v's taxes out.

    'As a taxpayer' I like to think the government is using common sense with regards to what they do with my taxes. I would rather $$ be spent helping women who need help (working mums, special needs kids, single parents/FIFO mums) rather than subsidizing care for mums who daycare is a 'want' (mental health, work) not a 'need' (do errands).

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