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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScubaGal View Post
    Well good then.

    It will be "forced" in the same way that we also try to force people not to drink and drive (through penalties and threat of loss of licence) which can have a similar effect on livelihood/family budget.
    lol I typed out a whole post about this very thing then hit cancel. We have financial disincentives for speeding and drink driving, which is dangerous not just to the driver and occupants but everyone around them through fines, and incentives in the form of half price licence renewal for not doing it. Yes they are illegal and not vaxxing isn't..... but I agree maybe it should be.

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    beebs  (13-04-2015),ScubaGal  (13-04-2015)

  3. #42
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    I had never thought about it like that before. What about all those poor drunks who want to drink and drive but can't?

    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    lol I typed out a whole post about this very thing then hit cancel. We have financial disincentives for speeding and drink driving, which is dangerous not just to the driver and occupants but everyone around them through fines, and incentives in the form of half price licence renewal for not doing it. Yes they are illegal and not vaxxing isn't..... but I agree maybe it should be.

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I could poke so many holes in this study it just isn't even funny. ”
    Yes you could I could put up a number of peer reviewed articles which influenced the CDC recommendations but I don't want to argue for circing.

    That wasn't the point, it was a hypothetical, would you as a an anti-circer circumcise your child if the government forced you into it by withdrawing benefits, stating studies and benefits for individual and public health? Still feeling that it is harmful to your child? Could you imagine how that might feel, can you see how that is free choice?

  5. #44
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    Others have put it more eloquently, but I'm not so much an anti-circer, as a pro-sciencer ☺ If the evidence for RIC was as strong as it is for vaxxing, I would do it.

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    beebs  (13-04-2015),CazHazKidz  (02-06-2015),Gentoo  (13-04-2015),misskittyfantastico  (13-04-2015),ScubaGal  (13-04-2015),VicPark  (13-04-2015)

  7. #45
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    If the science proved time and time again that it was good, safe, effective, needed, prevented death and disability - hell yes - of course I would. But like I said before, it won't, because it doesn't

    It's an unanswerable question - I see what you are trying to do - but it just won't work because these two things just can't be compared on any level.

    Vaccines are extremely safe, extremely effective, the single biggest medical breakthrough in human history, many say. There is no reason (apart from medical) why people should choose not to vaccinate. There is just none.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hootenanny View Post
    Yes you could I could put up a number of peer reviewed articles which influenced the CDC recommendations but I don't want to argue for circing.

    That wasn't the point, it was a hypothetical, would you as a an anti-circer circumcise your child if the government forced you into it by withdrawing benefits, stating studies and benefits for individual and public health? Still feeling that it is harmful to your child? Could you imagine how that might feel, can you see how that is free choice?
    Last edited by beebs; 13-04-2015 at 21:20.

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  9. #46
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    Would like to point out that I am against circling and would not do it as it stands now, but as PP mentioned, I am a pro sciencey person rather than a pro vaccinator/anti circer.

  10. #47
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    From time to time i have come across articles about male circumcision, So i wanted to write down and share my thoughts, i hope something here is useful for someone. I am against circumcision unless absoluty necessary. I sometimes think about what i would do if someone would try to cut off my foreskin without anaesthetic, which is exactly what happens to young baby boys, they do feel it.. I read an article about a woman who realised what was going being present during her sons circumcision due to the way her son was screaming, she was horrified and later sued the doctor. So i suppose my first thought is to offer sympathy to all the people out there who were conned against their better judgement to allow this procedure to be performed on their sons. It seems they also have to live with life long scars.
    Seems to be circumcision comes from an old school mentality, from the days of forced adoptions and such like. Choice is denied. A friend of mine when i was a teenager had a problem with his foreskin in that it was too tight and it would only retract causing pain as if was forced to stretch beyond what was possible. So i can understand there are legitimate cases of medical necessity, but not blanket barbarism. Even medical necessity needs to be on the side of caution, unless there is obvious pain and discomfort, leave it be. If weeing becomes too sprayed the child can be taught to retract the foreskin a little.
    I don’t spend much time looking at other males penises but from what i have seen i can see an easy comparison. Ever seen facial skin that is looked after and moisturised?, then compare that skin that someone who never moisturises and lives in an arid place. Thats exactly the difference in how penises look from non circumcised to circumcised.
    Penises that are still protected by a foreskin look healthy and moisturised, penises that have been circumcised look dry, skin damaged, as if it were caught up in a sand storm. I remember once i saw an older guy in an outdoors tub scrubbing his penis with a hard brush, i was shocked, but now realise it was due to a life of losing sensitivity in his penis.
    I think that the orgasm reached by circumcised and non circumcised men would be the same, thats more to do with the brain releasing pleasure chemicals. The difference would lie in the lead up, i feel blessed not being circumcised, my penis is very sensitive and pleasure comes very easy. My foreskin retracts by itself when i get an erection, but can be still pulled forward if i want.
    Another issue about circumcision is teaching boys how to wash under their foreskin. No disrespect to mothers, but i don’t think most boys get good teaching. I remember my parents trying to teach me and the info i got was pretty useless. I think its really embarrassing for mothers to teach boys this, especially as there are a couple of small areas that cant be cleaned with just a casual brush over, they require pointed pressure to open the areas and get in properly, the of course they have to be checked that they are washing properly, then of course there is the issue of what happens if the boy gets an erection during washing training. I was staying in a house once with a mother and she approached me once in semi despair not knowing what to do as her son of only a year old had an erection. So it think this is a loaded issue, nevertheless i would still say that poor hygiene training is no excuse for just cutting off the foreskin. I think the medical profession somehow needs to get involved in this training, as a support of parents who find this too difficult.

  11. #48
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    When I was a kid measles was considered a normal part of childhood. I never knew of anyone dieing. They are very analogous as they are both prophylactic.

  12. #49
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    Thanks for sharing those thoughts treasure. Enjoy your foreskin. Everyone needs a hobby. But since you are going to comment in public it needs to be noted that I've never seen an uncircumcised penis that looks like it has been in an arid region nor do I accept your assumptions about sexual enjoyment. I am aware that research on healthy males circumcised as an adult has 9 in 10 reporting increased sexual enjoyment. Finally I note that your post is in 2015 not 1960 so you you should be told that baby boys normally get an anaesthetic. (Just not a general one that carries added risks like older kids who need it for medical reasons. Maybe you read they don't get general anaesthetic and got mixed up.) Pain relief has long been recommended.

  13. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    If the science proved time and time again that it was good, safe, effective, needed, prevented death and disability - hell yes - of course I would. But like I said before, it won't, because it doesn't

    It's an unanswerable question - I see what you are trying to do - but it just won't work because these two things just can't be compared on any level.

    Vaccines are extremely safe, extremely effective, the single biggest medical breakthrough in human history, many say. There is no reason (apart from medical) why people should choose not to vaccinate. There is just none.
    But science indicates the circumcision has less side effects than vaccine and some conditions that it protects against it offers a level of protection comparable to a vaccination such as UTIs, HIV, and cervical cancer for partners. Can you explain that a little more?


 

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