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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by munchkin275 View Post
    This is a load of bull, the ONLY exemption they should allow is a medical one IMO

    Sent from my GT-I9507 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    That just defeats the whole purpose - the Australian (Anti) Vaccination Network - or AVN - just set themselves up as a religion last year, because they knew they could get expeditions that way. Groups shouldn't be just able to make up religions willy nilly to get out of vaxxing.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Obviously the tiny percentage of those that genuinely can't be vaccinated for medical reasons will be, and should be exempt.

    As to bodily autonomy. Where is the balance with the health and well being of everyone else? If not vaxxing only affected the child in question, I would still disagree but accept the parent is making the decision on behalf of their child. But it doesn't just affect that child. It affects the whole community. I would also question the whole bodily autonomy argument in general. Whether you do or don't get your kid's shots done, YOU are deciding on behalf of your child. Therefore either way we are taking their autonomy.
    Yeah - it's interesting - can we even use the bodily autonomy argument against vaccines, when the parents is making health choices for their child anyway?

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  5. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamasupial View Post
    I'd love to do some reading on this if you have any info. I had intussusception at 4 months of age and had the vax in 89.
    This article pulls together different studies down on Rotavirus vaccines and intussusception.

    Please not - it was never an unacceptable risk - it has always been considered very low, it is now even lower since the introduction of the new vaccines.

    PS- I've had intussusception 4 times as an adult - and I've never had rotavirus fax

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pediatrics/Vaccines/43791

  6. #104
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    I understand that this is an issue that is close to your heart, as it is for me as well. But a slight increase (re rotavirus vaxx and intussusception) is not the same as an "unacceptable increased risk". Have you actually read the literature?

    Out of 1,301,810 doses of RotaTeq, eight cases of intussusception were reported, but as 7.11 were expected, the relative risk was a nonsignificant 1.1.

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    What about children who have an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine? Or other health issues caused by vaccines? Rotashield, the Rotavirus vaccine used in the 90's carried an unacceptable increased risk of intussusception in children (a bowel issue) and was subsequently withdrawn from the market. Fluvax was another, wasn't it linked to the death of a two year old? Yep, here we go: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226441791947.

    When these same issues occur (and they most likely will of course - vaccine manufacturers are only human, after all) will the parents who were blackmailed into vaccinating successfully sue the government? Or because the money is a "supplement" and not an essential part of a payment, will it be seen as being an informed choice to vaccinate, and so the risks are accepted by the parent (i.e. no ability to sue). It's an interesting legal question.

    I think it's nuts forcing people to medicate for any issue whatsoever. Or to eat a certain way, or have a certain lifestyle - all which are conducive to personal AND societal health, though we seem to have the blinkers on about that! I believe in bodily autonomy - and as guardians for our children, we are gatekeepers for *their* bodily autonomy, for better or worse.

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  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha88 View Post
    FTA is not a reimbursement for having your child vaccinated though. What I find offensive is parents who feed their children take away constantly, with obesity related health issues, feeling because their child is vaccinated is more healthier an how they advocate health so positively ....
    I don't know which parents are thinking that.. My kid is vaccinated so I'll give them macdonalds?? Childhood obesity is absolutely an issue in this county but i find that a silly statement. Vaccines are to prevent contracting diseases. What parent feed their children is a completely different issue.

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  10. #106
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    I see what you're saying - but it isn't their children's fault. I just feel it is going to affect them negatively and they have done nothing wrong.

    I have said, something needs to be done though. I feel not enough has been done up to this date.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolly007 View Post
    then they should vax their kids. helping yourself to the welfare AND putting other kids at risk? I'm shocked at the self entitlement of some people.

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  12. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by geisha88 View Post
    Critically think.. I find a lot of people views of parents of non immunized children to be lazy or new age hippies lol. But majority of my friends are well educated & higher income earners.
    So you're educated on immunology above and beyond immunologists?

    Quote Originally Posted by loislane2010 View Post
    This whole thing is just utter cr@p. Most people who chose not to vaccinate would never let MONEY sway them. As people who chose TO vax wouldnt let it.

    More access to SINGLE vaccines rather than the combined ones.
    I believe that one of the benefits of having multiple vaccines in one shot is that the body is then only subjected to one dose of the preservatives, stabilizers and other additives in the vaccine, as opposed to being exposed to those products each time the person was vaccinated.

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    That just defeats the whole purpose - the Australian (Anti) Vaccination Network - or AVN - just set themselves up as a religion last year, because they knew they could get expeditions that way. Groups shouldn't be just able to make up religions willy nilly to get out of vaxxing.
    *sigh* Doesn't this just make you want to punch walls. The only exception should be medically approved. There's little point to this policy if a person can create or join a religion and totally bypass the whole process.

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  14. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by elleandsam View Post
    The problem is that all the education is out there and readily available it's just that people don't know how to critically evaluate their sources so they look at sources from natural.news.blah.com and other hippy dippy sites with confirmation bias thinking "I thought vaccinations were bad, and these big websites say so too so it must be true" while discrediting the science done by immunologists because they must be 'paid shills.' You've also got anti-vaxx sites calling themselves Vaccine Information Network and equally misleading things. It's ridiculous that these sites come up on the first page of google when trying to "research" vaccines.

    The education from immunologists and peer reviewed studies are out there and readily available, it's just that anti-vaxxers don't trust it.
    That's the thing though, people (including you and me) tend to all have confirmation bias. Also, anti vax "information" is rather clever in the way it simplifies issues, such as correlation, to make it's point, whereas all too often science has a hard time explaining itself and breaking down quite complex ideas into easy to grasp concepts. This is but one way propagandists etc can easily spread misinformation. The trick for the scientific fraternity and governments is to use those same methods but applying real scientific, proven/peer reviewed data and fact. And finally, having a few brochures or posters in the doctors office, doesn't exactly constitute an education campaign. People don't change their closely held beliefs and actions simply on the basis of a poster, it needs to be supported by a range of other things including the "policing" element which I suppose the removal of benefits policy is trying to do.

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  16. #109
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    PP asked if we had an outbreak would anti vaxxers suddenly decide to vaccinate. Going by what happened in Wales and the measles outbreak, then yes - they literally were lining up for blocks to get their unvaxxed kids vaccinated.

    I need to learn to multi quote! Sorry for all the posts everyone

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  18. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post

    I agree that education falls on deaf ears. It's much like the climate change debate. The science is there, and the very small amount of research that contradicts the thousands of studies can have so many holes poked in it it's not funny. Most anti vaxxers have made up their minds that vaccines are evil and so are the companies and med pros who make and administer them.
    Totally agree. A lot of the anti vax websites for "information" contain emotive language (vaccines are evil etc.) and often have pictures of a children screaming with a needle coming towards them. This is not the language of science. If there was clear evidence there would be no need to use these tactics to convince people.

    i think a lot of anti vaxxers have made up their mind and nothing will sway that. Cutting benifits won't do anything for a lot of non vaxxers.


 

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