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  1. #81
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    OP: something Harvs about age said sparked another series of additional hints..

    While I personally think you shouldn't start worrying about routine too young (8ish weeks... After the 6 week growth spurt worked for me) there may also be an age past which I wouldn't recommend trying SOS. Not sure what it is. Trying to break established 'bad' habits in an older baby (8-10 months?) is a hell of a lot harder (more tears - not my cup of tea) than just starting from scratch and encouraging 'good' habits in a 2-3 month old. So my advice is to do your research now (as you are) but not wait too long after bub arrives before putting things into practice.

    Even though I don't recommend a routine for a very young bub there are things you can do at an early age to encourage 'good' sleep habits:
    - introduce a breathable comforter with your smell on it and use it at every sleep, but only at sleep time
    - try not to feed/rock/pat bub to sleep. In the early days it is hard but if you can stop feeding/patting/rocking when bub is drowsy but awake, that's a good start to self settling
    - try to avoid using a dummy past 6 weeks. If you do use a dummy try and wriggle it from bubs mouth before bub falls asleep (ie while drowsy).
    - wrap/swaddle bub
    - for the first 6 months try putting bub to sleep in a different place (not in cot/bassinet) for one nap a day (eg for the 3rd late arvo nap I used to put my boys to sleep in their rocker chair).

    That's all for now... Better help hubby he's been sorting the household duties out while I bludge on BH and I think he's starting to get cranky!

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    . But a one size fits all book is fundamentally flawed imo given no baby is the same.
    It's not a one sized fits all book. There are scenarios, techniques and what not to help with a variety of situations and different bubs. It arms you with a tool kit of ideas which you can chose to draw on when facing a challenge.

  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    True. But if walking away and making a cuppa stopped you from doing something stupid then that's a good thing...
    Of course it is a good thing if we can avoid abusing our children, but there are many steps and strategies available before having to physically remove ourselves from our distressed infants, such as considering our attributions for our bub's behaviour or simply doing 'what works' (eg feed or cuddle to sleep). For example, in my experience, with a bub who always fought sleep and escalated rather than self-settled, it was viewing the cries as communication (eg. 'she's just a little baby who needs my help to get to sleep'), rather than manipulation (eg. 'she's just trying to get what she wants so she can 'win'), that helped me to remain calm and sensitive to her needs.

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  6. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    Heplusme, I totally get the wanting to be prepared, I do. But what I think many of us are trying to say, from experience, is that setting yourself into one technique from day dot could potentially lead to you feeling really, really **** about yourself which isn't good for you or baby because these routines do not always work for every baby. I'm a routine person and I live in a country away from any close friends or family with a husband that works very long hours. The best advice I can give is to be open to many styles and advice and take all of your favorite pieces until you have your personal mom-style. There are a lot of great parenting books out there, some by people who have actually researched and studied infant/child development extensively. I've found taking bits of a couple authors' routines combined with books like The Wonder Weeks and other great baby sleep websites really helpful in helping me establish the type of parent I want to be and I feel is best for DS.
    Have to agree with this.

    I googled like crazy in the early days. Googled average awake and sleep times, tried to come up with something by myself. Actually had a few of the more gently books (what's that one that advocates the EASY method) but found them too difficult to understand... Was like... Just give me a print out on one page that I can use for a guide ffs!.

    It's after that research I found SOS. But from time to time I do google other sources and compare.

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    My advice is to listen to your instincts. I remember when I had my first child I had no idea what I was doing. I had well meaning advice from midwives, family, friends. I found it overwhelming. Then I just blocked it all out and went with what felt right. I still do that with my 3rd child. I won't lie that being a parent is bloody hard. But a one size fits all book is fundamentally flawed imo given no baby is the same.
    Very good advice here.

  8. #86
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    It's hard as a first time mum too because you really have no idea and are trying to find your way. I had a lot of people tell me not to encourage "bad habits" like feeding my baby to sleep, or singing, rocking or cuddling him to sleep. Took a long time for me to realise I don't actually view these as bad habits. So it's good to go with your own instincts.

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  10. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    That's very sensible advice, and I completely agree with you.

    But that's not what Tizzie wants you to do. Did you see the quotation of hers I posted earlier? She wants us to follow it to the letter, which I think is what leads to parental distress. Or potentially leads to distress.

    And while I'm here :-) you and I are at way different ends of the scale when it comes to SOS, and that's cool. I don't judge any one who chooses to use it. I don't like the label 'hater' as it's just simply not for me.

    But I just want to clarify that my reference to the boil the kettle thing is about the length of time suggested.
    It would take a hell of a lot longer than three minutes for my kettle to boil, let alone the filling it up and the sitting calmly to drink my tea parts. That's what is not for me - that length of time.

    I notice, and this isn't directed at you, that often the 'haters' are dismissed as not getting it. Misinterpreting, getting it wrong etc. Last thread someone suggested I could choose another drink instead of tea if I didn't like it.

    I feel that it devalues my opinion to be dismissed so easily as this. I have read it. I do get it. I don't misinterpret the 'kettle section' the way you have suggested and I'd be amazed if most 'haters' do interpret it that way. Just clarifying :-)

    I hope that comes across alright cos I know how tense these threads can get, and you know I think you're a top chick.
    I actually don't think we are that different TBH. I always stick up for SOS as I think it has it's merits. I have the book and I've read it. I want to try and use it, however I have not used it for either of my kids as they've both got / had silent reflux, CMPI and feeding issues so it won't work for us.

    I do stick up for it because there are parents who are comfortable with it, who do use it and it does work and I'm sick to death of those who do not personally feel comfortable with it bagging it out and bagging out those parent who use it (not talking about you harvs you're more respectful of different parenting styles than that).

    There's this implication that parents who use the methods are selfish, cruel, heartless, shouldn't have had kids if they want the kids to just fit in their lives, treating their kids like dogs, expecting them to be robots etc. That is what peeves me off the most so I'm in here sticking up for the methods in the book and the parents who choose to use it.

    I personally don't like to hear my kids cry either. Mine never have a protest cry. They are either happy or they're crying an emotional cry, that combined with their feeding and medical issues means I can't use her methods.

    Someone also said that those who use her methods have said that sleep training and sleep training alone makes good sleepers and there aren't babies who are born good sleepers. I disagree, I've never heard that before. Just that in many cases if you don't have a baby who is born a good sleeper, then it can take a lot of hard work to get them to be good sleepers and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I also never see no cry sleep solutions threads going this horribly wrong. I'm pretty sure if someone asked for help with Elizabeth Pantleys no cry sleep solution using her book and an SOS user or a Controlled Crying user (yes they're different) saying I can't believe anyone would use her book, it would just take far too long to get your baby sleeping, stop being so soft and just leave your baby to cry for xyz long, get a life surely you have better things to do with your time than feed and rock your baby to sleep etc etc (I don't believe these things just giving examples) they would get slaughtered, but saying the above things to SOS or controlled crying users has always been okay and that I don't agree with either! So here I am sticking up for SOS. Not because I use it but because those who do are just as good a parents, just as caring, just as nurturing, just as loving as the parents who don't.

    So lastly I respect that people can't let their babies cry at all and therefore can't / don't want to use SOS that's fine. It's also fine that some parents can. Can't everyone just stop and appreciate that? According to SOS threads - no!

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  12. #88
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    Well heres my take on SOS.

    I have a friend that has used it from birth. The routines messed with her supply and caused mastitis several times. Her baby IMO is stressed and tired because she wakes her up from her naps because she "shouldn't be napping anymore." Her baby will not sleep anywhere but in the cot because she would constantly wake her up if she slept outside of her nap times. Now she complains that her bub won't sleep in the car/pram etc. My friend is stressed and tired because she is constantly clock watching and trying to make sure nothing goes astray with the routines. She doesn't come out an enjoy activities because it doesn't fit in with the routines. I don't believe she has had a lot of enjoyment out of her lovely baby because she has spent so much time worrying about the clock and not "forming bad habits."
    My cousin used SOS on her baby but did not follow it to the letter, just used the times loosly but nothing else (never leaving baby to cry, not being super strict on routines etc). She has had success with it.

    I personally just went with the flow even though I have had a huge amount of people try and push SOS on me. My baby sleeps very well at night in his cot, I use a dummy, we occasionally co-sleep, and I will cuddle and rock him to sleep as long as he needs me (which isn't all that often at night anymore). He has set his own routine just lately (6mo) and is doing very well.

    My honest opinion: Mum's these days read too many books. Follow your own instincts. Your gut and your baby will tell you what to do.

    If you ever doubt yourself, Pinky McKay's "Parenting by heart" is a fantastic, supportive and warm read if you feel the need to read something. I suggest you look into that if you want to read something about parenting that isn't about routines, bad habits, and what not to do.
    Last edited by Pearlygirl; 06-04-2015 at 22:05.

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  14. #89
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    I tried SOS for about 2 days (!) when DS was about 10 weeks old. He was already sleeping through the night but it took ages to get him down and day sleeps were all over the place. It was helpful to know how much he should/ could sleep at that age but overall I resisted just how rigid it was -
    Eg the pump from this boob at this time... seriously?

    It didn't work when DS didn't sleep/ nap as long as he was 'meant to' and was therefore overtired by the next designated nap time. I also found the crying (was 4 minutes according to the book) too hard to listen to and was bursting into his room (crying myself by this stage) telling DH 'that's not a protest cry, that's not a protest cry!'

    I was also put off by some of the bedding advice (even though it does seem to me that lots of people underdress their bubs for bed) and especially by the feeding advice as I think rice cereal is unnecessary and wanted to do blw.

    I have a friend who is a very rigid routine driven person who followed it to the letter and she loved it but even she said that the whole 'cup of tea' scenario is a very long time and it's hard to follow through on.

    I agree with PP that a nighttime bedtime and routine is a must - even from the first days at home - and when we worked towards putting bub in bed 'drowsy but awake' life was better. I still fed to sleep more or less but would let bubs stir when put into his cot rather than trying to ensure he was 'out'.

    In the end DS found his own routine which incidentally is modified every few months as he grows. He has never done 7-7 -- at 18mo he sleeps 6:30pm to 5/5:30am and has done for probably a year. I think that's just his rhythm. I don't ever have to rock him in the middle of the night and bedtime is rock solid. So it can be done without sticking to someone else's plan is my point. Having read the book you have some ideas, read some others too and when you meet bub you'll have a repertoire to choose from.

  15. #90
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    I don't think those that use SOS are bad parents. From experience they are often a mixture of chronically sleep deprived and desperate for some normalcy (which is understandable) and those that (I believe) are told by society that catering to their child makes the child naughty/manipulative/makes a rod for the parents back.

    I believe a vast majority of parents are just trying to do the best they can with the resources they have. I just fundamentally don't agree with the TH approach.

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