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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robyn400 View Post
    Science is great and studies give us some great things, but the problem is the only way you could conclusively prove something like this is if you had a baby, breastfed it for however long you needed for the study, and tested the iq at whatever point you wanted. You'd then need a time machine to go back and bottle feed instead of breastfeed that exact same baby, make sure it lived the exact same life in all other aspects and redo the iq tests. Then you could say whether breastfeeding made a difference. But until they invest in that time machine, these studies are always going to have so many other factors that could affect things like intelligence. Even if you got identical twins and fed them differently (which would be about as close as you could get to above), they're not going to live the EXACT same life so will still have different factors.

    And if I got my hands on a time machine, I'd be going back to enter those winning lotto numbers before I worried about 3 iq points.
    From what their saying a twin study would be completely adequate for the purposes of the research. They're most important aspect of each subject is what they were fed in the first year of life. To look at twins raised together and compare them with twins raised apart would give more accurate results because it would show up and rule out other environmental differences.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunkydunks View Post
    From what their saying a twin study would be completely adequate for the purposes of the research. They're most important aspect of each subject is what they were fed in the first year of life. To look at twins raised together and compare them with twins raised apart would give more accurate results because it would show up and rule out other environmental differences.
    But there are still other genetic factors with ID twins, like for example the way one twin can get an autoimmune disease but the other may not. genetics can play a apart in IQ levels as well. The truth is, we just don't know enough about genes, the human brain etc. And until we do are really just hypothesising.

  3. #23
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    I think that unless in studies everything, I mean EVERYTHING is done 100% the same way, you can't believe it really.
    Home life (not bf vs ff) has a huge impact on the way child grow and learn. I'm sure a lot of the smart asian people out there don't thank their mums for their choice in food for making them smart. It's all the hours study and extra curriculum they do. Children who are brought up in abusive homes don't wish they were breast fed so they become smart. They are grateful to have been fed for that day.
    Even with no abuse if two households parent slightly different it could have a huge impact on the kids future. Blah

  4. #24
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    Default Yet another study to guilt FF mummies....

    Quote Originally Posted by CitrusRain View Post
    Can I just point something out as both a FF and BF mum?

    Articles like this aren't written (or posted on here) to purposely guilt anyone and no one should feel guilty for choosing formula. We all have our reasons and formula (or breastmilk) was the right choice for each of us or our babies at the time. My opinion is that the benefits of BF do not always outweigh the benefits of FF even if studies (that don't take into account the personal circumstances of every mother and baby) say it's the better option. I'm comfortable with my choice to give DS1 formula, as am I with my choice to exclusively BF DS2 and no study will change that. I don't feel guilty that I wasn't able to give DS1 the 3 point whatever it is extra IQ points because my choice gave him life. Another mother shouldn't feel guilty about the IQ points because her emotional wellbeing is more important. Another mother shouldn't feel guilty because giving her baby milk that wasn't affected by medications is more important. Whatever the reason we all made it with the information and circumstances we had at the time.

    Mums, one last thing, you need to understand that just because someone makes a choice and is proud of that choice, even celebrates that choice, they may have made a different choice having been given different circumstances. It's not a slight on you. Be kinder to yourselves and celebrate your wonderful decision.
    I know you haven't quoted me so you're not referring to me specifically, but the title I gave wasn't as I feel guilty about FF my DD or desperately wanting to FF DS, but I know there are many vulnerable mums out there who will see this study reported in main****** media who are already feeling guilt, may have PND and they hear this and for them it's another reason to feel guilty and that's why I have a problem with the study.

    I'm not going to not say how I feel as I've said it in the right area. Holly's thread is for BF to celebrate and I'm okay with that. This thread is for formula feeders to pick apart the research if they see fit. I'm not even sure why there's an issue. Can't we just stick to our own sections?
    Last edited by A-Squared; 20-03-2015 at 10:07.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    But there are still other genetic factors with ID twins, like for example the way one twin can get an autoimmune disease but the other may not. genetics can play a apart in IQ levels as well. The truth is, we just don't know enough about genes, the human brain etc. And until we do are really just hypothesising.
    There are a lot of factors that could change the outcome of the results but seeing as identical twins have the same DNA (that's not to say their gene expression is the same) it really is as close as they could get to ruling out other factors. And you're exactly right, there is still so much to learn about genetics and development.

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  7. #26
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    I just thought I'd point out that according to the study the benefit of bf starts to decline after predominantly bf for more than 4 months. So, according to the study, exclusively bf for the first 6 months actually has a worse effect than bf for 4 months then stopping (not exactly in line with the breast is best campaign). Of course these are all tiny differences and there are lots of other factors need to be taken into account (like the quality of drinking water in Brazil 30 years ago), so I wouldn't get too worried about a study like this.
    Last edited by Meg2; 20-03-2015 at 11:34.

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitrusRain View Post
    I hope you're not saying I'm part of this section.

    Your title is "Yet another study to guilt FF mummies...." I'm trying to say that if all FF made the right choice for them and their baby then this study shouldn't make anyone feel guilty and if you do feel guilty then you need to evaluate those feelings and your reasons for FF in the first place. I support every women to make her own choices. Some silly study doesn't change my mind that I did the right thing by FF and not should it change anyone else's mind.
    I know it shouldn't, but what I'm saying is that even though some of us in BH land are okay with our decisions to formula feed, there are many women out there who aren't and who would be feeling downright crap about themselves and their decision to ff.

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    beebs  (21-03-2015)

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitrusRain View Post
    I hope you're not saying I'm part of this section.

    Your title is "Yet another study to guilt FF mummies...." I'm trying to say that if all FF made the right choice for them and their baby then this study shouldn't make anyone feel guilty and if you do feel guilty then you need to evaluate those feelings and your reasons for FF in the first place. I support every women to make her own choices. Some silly study doesn't change my mind that I did the right thing by FF and not should it change anyone else's mind.
    I really really wish it were that straightforward for everyone. But unfortunately for most of us who desperately wanted and tried to bf and didn't manage it, there is so much emotion and disappointment there, seeing it that way is just impossible.

    I'm another one who, 8 years ago, would have been devastated by seeing this, despite knowing that formula kept my baby alive. There's still a few pangs there when I think of it, but my awesome DD is smarter than 99% of her classmates so I know it doesn't apply to us. I really feel for those still going through it though.

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  13. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CitrusRain View Post
    I'm not saying their feelings aren't valid, because they are, I'm saying that they don't HAVE to think about it like that. They don't have to feel guilty. Picking apart one study out of the thousands of pro BF studies isn't going to make them feel better and it's their attitude that has to change for them to realise it really isn't the end of the world (even if it seems like it is at the time).

    Maybe that's a simplistic view. It took me a long time to accept things for what they are and overcome some pretty massive hurdles in my own life so I guess something like this didn't rate on the scale of decisions to beat myself up for. We put way too much pressure on ourselves to do "the right thing" and sometimes you just have to sit back and go for the ride. There are things that are out of your control. Hopefully with time you can all feel comfortable and happy with the decisions you make.
    I am now where you are @CitrusRain, however 3 years ago this was not the case. I get where you're coming from but telling me 3 years ago that I didn't "have" to feel like that would not have helped me at all - it is too simplistic. This issue has so many layers of complexities in human emotion that we just need to validate both sides. Because still here now in the pro bottle section women are being told to not feel guilty, any choice is ok - it is not as simple as someone telling you that. And women in the pro bf section are being made to feel they can't celebrate, this is not right either. This article being posted here should not inconvenience a person who is celebrating their bf journey just as it being posted in the pro bf section should not be seen as a sleight to those that can't or havent bf. Both parties need a place - and telling either group how or what they should, feel, do or behave only ignites the sense of feeling misunderstood. Just as pro bf are entitled to celebrate this article so too are bottle feeders allowed to feel they way they do. Sorry this is not directed at you - but the dialogue around this issue in general.

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    A-Squared  (21-03-2015)

  15. #30
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    I just want to add - because this needs to be noted to members that weren't here before or around 2012 that the fierceness with which bottle feeders were put down or told that their children wouldnt have shiny hair, their brains wouldnt develop properly, that they wouldnt bond with their child, that my child has eczema because of bottle feeding, these are a catalyst for many of the emotions you probably see now amongst some members today. I was a person that went head to head alongside posters like @girlX, @kw123 and @delerium and others in standing up to some very emotively charged and below the belt attacks on bottle feeding. Things have changed around here in regards to this issue and there is so much more support. It was not always like this.

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    A-Squared  (21-03-2015),beebs  (21-03-2015),btmacxxx  (21-03-2015)


 

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