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  1. #361
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    There's an interesting study that has been done in Canada that shows that a peadophiles brain is different. And that people are either born that way or not. It will be interesting to see if they reproduce the findings.

    But I agree with you Holly, drug rings are terrible, they aren't ok, they need to be crushed and the perpetrators bought to justice. I don't think anyone has said that isn't horrible? However, I do think people are capable of change, and it seems like these two have, it seems a shame to kill two people who are helping others to get clean and better their lives.

    I think rehabilitation for crimes is the key, not just locking people up either. We have a program at the prison in our town where some of the men are responsible for training care dogs, they bring them outside (with their guards) to meet the community, and already there is evidence of less reoffending rates for the men involved in the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm not meaning to argue with you or compare your situation to the above. What I'm saying is that they are both disorders, addiction and above (I actually don't want to type that word anymore). I googled and there's actually a difference between pedophiles and child mo1esters. Pedophiles suffer from the disorder but don't necessarily act on it whereas abusers choose to act on it.

    I'll say again that I do not agree with the death penalty, in any instance and I do hope the Indonesian government changes their mind. I was actually telling babyla I actually think I'm able to not get emotional about these guys' plight because I don't actually believe they'll be executed. Maybe that's me being too optimistic and trusting again....

    Regardless, I'm not going to be convinced that a drug smuggler's crime is 'not that bad.' They are responsible in playing a part in innocent lives being lost, whether they were the big guys or a few wrungs down and I think lives being ruined are lives being ruined, one isn't worse than the other.

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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    And often these are the same people who have no issue with America invading and bombing the cr@p out of Iraq for no good reason, for assassinating Hussein and Bin Laden (Hussein for 'war crimes' committed in his sovereign soul), for plucking citizens out of their own countries and detaining them in Gitmo for undetermined periods of time (and subjecting them to appalling human rights abuses and torture), for raining bombs down onto African nations...

    It really is a massive double standard when you think about it. Either it's ok to meddle or it ain't.
    I disagree, there is a huge difference with America and allies invading to get some oil, and the UN stepping in in places like Bosnia. It's the intentions that matter, which is why we need international bodies like the UN, if you remember, they were totally against the Iraq war. But America and allies just did it anyway no doubt America and friends is a major cause of all the troubles in the Middle East today. Not to say that the UN have never made any wrong decisions, but again, it comes down to their intentions.

    We absolutely should intervene when people are being tortured or abused, but we should never do it for money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    I'm not meaning to argue with you or compare your situation to the above. What I'm saying is that they are both disorders, addiction and above (I actually don't want to type that word anymore). I googled and there's actually a difference between pedophiles and child mo1esters. Pedophiles suffer from the disorder but don't necessarily act on it whereas abusers choose to act on it.

    I'll say again that I do not agree with the death penalty, in any instance and I do hope the Indonesian government changes their mind. I was actually telling babyla I actually think I'm able to not get emotional about these guys' plight because I don't actually believe they'll be executed. Maybe that's me being too optimistic and trusting again....

    Regardless, I'm not going to be convinced that a drug smuggler's crime is 'not that bad.' They are responsible in playing a part in innocent lives being lost, whether they were the big guys or a few wrungs down and I think lives being ruined are lives being ruined, one isn't worse than the other.
    And this is why I'm glad I didn't send my reply last night. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. And still dont agree with some parts of it but that's just my opinions. I just took things you said the wrong way and it probably would have started a **** fight lol. I know you weren't trying to cause an argument though!

    I guess I think about Nature vs nurture when it comes to things like drug and alcohol abuse, rape, pedophilia, murders ect. Yes a hell of alot of people go through tough **** and are beaten down, abused ect and dont turn into a rapist of junkie. Just me a DH are proof of how different people cope with things. Ive mentioned in another thread what happened to him as a child and yet he has never smoked a cigarette, does drink but by no means an alcoholic, was never into drugs but did experiment twice in high school and come out as a well adjusted adult. He has his demons but he deals with them amazingly. Then me, well yeah lol.
    The crimes from some view points look the same. (Jeeze probably going to get flamed for this statment) Though this situation isnt something I hope to ever deal with and I doubt will ever arise due to my avoidance of people from these worlds, I would prefer to have DD in the presence of a rehabilitated past drug addict than a rehabilitated pedophile.

    Added: I just dont see them as equal but I also dont think drug addiction/dealing/smuggling/pruduction is "not that bad" and I hope I'm not coming across as some drug addict supporter. But in a destruction of lives view, yes I guess they are similar.
    Last edited by RaraMum; 08-03-2015 at 08:30.

  5. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I disagree, there is a huge difference with America and allies invading to get some oil, and the UN stepping in in places like Bosnia. It's the intentions that matter, which is why we need international bodies like the UN, if you remember, they were totally against the Iraq war. But America and allies just did it anyway no doubt America and friends is a major cause of all the troubles in the Middle East today. Not to say that the UN have never made any wrong decisions, but again, it comes down to their intentions.

    We absolutely should intervene when people are being tortured or abused, but we should never do it for money.
    I think we are kind of making the same point except I didn't express my thoughts very well. Damn champagne.

    I mean a lot of people who think we should leave well enough alone also had no problem with the Iraq War which was, as you say, an invasion for money. This was not leaving another nation 'well enough alone'.

    They also were the same people that had no issue with the U.S. intervening and assassinating Hussein and Bin Laden for the reason of defending human rights violations, which is kind of the same reason people are wanting governments to intervene in sovereign nations where the death penalty is illegal. So if one is acceptable, so is the other in my books, especially since there is no military involvement here.

    I hope that makes a bit more sense. If not I'll go back to bed and start again :-)

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  7. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaraMum View Post
    And this is why I'm glad I didn't send my reply last night. I misunderstood what you were trying to say. And still dont agree with some parts of it but that's just my opinions. I just took things you said the wrong way and it probably would have started a **** fight lol. I know you weren't trying to cause an argument though!

    I guess I think about Nature vs nurture when it comes to things like drug and alcohol abuse, rape, pedophilia, murders ect. Yes a hell of alot of people go through tough **** and are beaten down, abused ect and dont turn into a rapist of junkie. Just me a DH are proof of how different people cope with things. Ive mentioned in another thread what happened to him as a child and yet he has never smoked a cigarette, does drink but by no means an alcoholic, was never into drugs but did experiment twice in high school and come out as a well adjusted adult. He has his demons but he deals with them amazingly. Then me, well yeah lol.
    The crimes from some view points look the same. (Jeeze probably going to get flamed for this statment) Though this situation isnt something I hope to ever deal with and I doubt will ever arise due to my avoidance of people from these worlds, I would prefer to have DD in the presence of a rehabilitated past drug addict than a rehabilitated pedophile.

    Added: I just dont see them as equal but I also dont think drug addiction/dealing/smuggling/pruduction is "not that bad" and I hope I'm not coming across as some drug addict supporter. But in a destruction of lives view, yes I guess they are similar.
    In all honesty, I'm taking this whole argument/discussion to heart. A family friend passed away from an overdose a couple of weeks ago, I have addicts in my family and have also dealt with somebody I love being abused and somebody I love being accused. I see this argument from so many angles my head is spinning and I need to get off this ride.

  8. #366
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    Big hugs holly x

    I'm not surprised you're taking it to heart

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    Quote Originally Posted by HollyGolightly81 View Post
    In all honesty, I'm taking this whole argument/discussion to heart. A family friend passed away from an overdose a couple of weeks ago, I have addicts in my family and have also dealt with somebody I love being abused and somebody I love being accused. I see this argument from so many angles my head is spinning and I need to get off this ride.
    Im so sorry for you loss and the things you have delt with. Im in no way trying to hurt you or upset you.

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    Big hugs hollygolightly81

  11. #369
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    Sorry to hear you are going through these awful things holly

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    Sorry guys, I wasn't meaning my comment in an 'I'm upset' way, was just trying to explain that I understand all of the arguments from so many angles, I completely understand heplusme but also beebs and babyla. I'm ok with a lot of it and the family friend is more feeling awful for his parents. Don't stop the debate for me, I was just trying to explain that I'm not heartless, i do understand the arguments.

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