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  1. #321
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    I'm against the death penalty on all cases.

    Although cases like Jill Meagher test my resolve.

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  3. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by heplusme View Post
    So everyone under 25 should get off due to a lack of mental capacity?
    Of course not.

    But surely we have a responsibility to look at more than just the criminal - there is culpability beyond the crime and the criminal. Seeking to understand is crucial to making positive change for social issues. Ignoring mitigating circumstances and individuals social discourse and the impact that is has on crime leads us nowhere.

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  5. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by heplusme View Post
    I understand, its just convenient that these mitigating factors only become a problem once they have been caught.
    These mitigating factors are a problem long before people get caught. They're a problem across society.

  6. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think you're over thinking it. I doubt their whole operations to date was all about manipulating the public and sticking it to the Indonesians. It was more likely about young people whose brains had not yet fully matured wanting to make a quick buck, thinking they were invincible and then ****ting themselves and trying anything tt hey could once hey realised they had ****ed up and were up **** creek without a paddle.
    Yes. Scott Rush and my cousins were friends in Chelmer and later on in Inala, meeting through drug circles. My cousins only 2 years older than Rush (1983) and has since told me about Scotts drug use when they were young. Using (maybe experimenting is the better word here?) a range of drugs in his early teen. I havent seen my cousin since I cut myself off from the world but I remember him using the phrase "game to give it all a go" to describe Scott. I speak from experience in saying any mind is deteriorated and destroyed by drugs. Ive worked hard to repair myself despite doing my body permanent damage, to relearn basic things that seemed to dissappear from my brain, Ive had to teach myself to be a REAL adult, not a teen slinging drugs thinking shes all grown up and invincible. I've redone high school (or really done it for the first time), and not just for a certificate but just so I wasnt a complete zit on societies proverbial ***. Ive gotten a damn decent job considering my options were limited, (before DD and sometimes work now) But damn it was hard, and that is from one drug (a bad one,but only that one). My brain never had a chance to develop. I can only imagine what mixing all different things will do to the body and brain. Meth, heroin, ecstacy, pot, ox blood, fantacy the list goes on and on. Not only do all those drugs have a damaging effect on the brain (including decision making abilites) when taken by themselves but taken together plus any cuts (often worse chemicals than the drug already contains) lead to drug interactions reaking havoc on the human body. Pair this with an under matured brain and a body craving more and your ability to make appropriate choices goes flying out the window. If you met me at 12 noone would have guessed what I would be doing in a years time, I sure didnt. And if you met me now I very highly doubt anyone would assume that I was like that just a few years ago (except mainly my dentist who has made thousands off me.)
    The choices I made and the things I did, during those years of using, aren't something I could put behind me easily after I cleaned up. I went to my home town police station 4 months later with my dad and DH (bf at the time) and told them everything. Confessed to all the things I did. I probably would have gone to jail had I been caught but they were lenient because I walked in and could prove i had admitted myself to rehab. The choices I made effected so many people. I would never make the choices now. No logical, healthy minded person would. I'm not putting all the blame on drugs, I made the choices, but they do there job well, lowering inhibitions, producing the "rush" that really does make you feel unstoppable, speeding up thought rate and seriously reducing the level you care about anything else. They hit your body and put it in *search* mode, I guess is one way to describe it. You might sit on the floor of a hotel room for 10 hours straight tinkering with a radio but even unconciously in the back of your mind your ticking over how to get more. I like to think international laws and the death penalty would have scared me off if I had ever been in that situation but realistically, having been offered my drug of choice and a big wad of cash, I probably would have slapped a kilo of meth on my back and skipped my way through that airport. I cant speak for other people on here, and I'm not looking for a cop out; I am very aware of what ive done and take responsibility by working very hard to at least somewhat redeem myself but had I never met that man at 13 and tried the junk "just for fun" I know I wouldnt have done the things I did or made the choices I made. I dont think they walked into the airport knowing and relying on Australia to save their *** if **** went down. They probably didnt give getting caught a second thought, most of them had done it before and they were after all "invincible". I doubt the gave a rats *** about much other than getting to destination B, getting off tap and getting paid.

    Sorry to ramble for so long just to agree with VicPark. My mind criscrosses and jumps around alot while I try to get to my point.


    Edit: I was distracted playing with DD so didnt realise how many people posted between what I quoted and now so will read through other replies and probably come back and remove/add to this post.
    Last edited by RaraMum; 07-03-2015 at 13:39.

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  8. #325
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    All of the Bali 9 were also users, I have never met a user who was logical, ever. If it was question if logic they wouldn't be addicts in the first place. What i am getting from this thread is some people dont believe anyone is capable of change, or even if they are, they dont deserve a second chance. And I guess the question would be where do we draw the line? What is considered worthy of a second chance and what isn't? =Jennaisme;8122514]Haha. Sorry, @harvs
    I can only draw that bow because I have previous experience with drug dealers and smugglers. And it didn't cloud my view on how they should be treated, just gave me a unique way of looking at a situation like they would. One of the first things they seem to look for is an "out" if they're caught. I couldn't figure what theirs would be until i realised that it would be Australia itself.
    Most dealers i used to know don't actually use the sh1t they peddle, they just supply it. So their brains aren't affected by the substances they use. They can still make logical decisions, weigh up the pros and cons and what they have at their disposal to save their sh1tty hides if they're ever busted. Well, there it was. Corby's case gave them what they needed and they used it.
    Most dealers and smugglers are not stupid. The stupid ones don't last. In fact, most of them are quite intelligent, often highly logical and rational people.

    i guess that's why i find it so hard to be sympathetic. From my own experiences, they are incredibly intelligent people who would have thought of everything before they started anything. It just hasn't quite worked out for them. Yet, anyway.

    Edit: Sorry, on my phone so takes me a while to type.
    @VicPark , one of them was 24. Are you telling me that one, singular year was so important to his developing brain that he wasn't able to think through his actions to their logical conclusion? He couldn't make this simple connection: If i am busted in Indonesia, i will be shot.
    He was 24, not 14. At some point, underdeveloped brains must stop being used as an excuse to do dumb sh1t. Or it must be used as an excuse for all things. And that would be a horrible, horrible thing.[/QUOTE]

  9. #326
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    Thanks for sharing your story @RaraMum it really puts it in perspective just how easy it is to go down that path, I'm so glad you got your life back on track!

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  11. #327
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    [QUOTE=beebs;8122588]All of the Bali 9 were also users, I have never met a user who was logical, ever. If it was question if logic they wouldn't be addicts in the first place. What i am getting from this thread is some people dont believe anyone is capable of change, or even if they are, they dont deserve a second chance. And I guess the question would be where do we draw the line? What is considered worthy of a second chance and what isn't?
    ^^^ Im sure after what ive said today alot of people will be thinking I shouldnt have kids ect because people often dont believe in change. The day I walked out on my drug life and into rehab I changed. My mind was/is screwed up, I can't and probably won't ever get into a normal, healthy sleep cycle, Ive got my scars, physical and mental but I changed. It was hard but I had to do it to prove to myself that I could. Had i not I would probably find myself these days in jail, dead or dying from hiv or the likes.

    I didnt relapse. Not once, even when I was at my worst mentally and could have easily found access to it. I will never relapse. I have pretty low self esteem and assurance in myself but this is the one area I fully believe and have confidence in myself. Ive made a decent life for myself and with a great, hardworking, supportive man, our step children and our daughter. I can't change my past but I can't ignore it either. I dont know if these boys have changed, been rehabilitated and are new men. I have no clue. Let Indonesia put them behind bars for however long they see fit. I still don't see a reason they should die though.


    Sorry for going off on my little tanget about myself. I didnt mean to, I just related back to myself to try to explain why I have the opinions I do.

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  13. #328
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    Does anyone have the right to take the life of someone else? No.

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  15. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootenanny View Post
    Does anyone have the right to take the life of someone else? No.
    See this is what I am talking about. I wrote a gazillion word post that probably left people confused and unsure of the point of my nonsensical ramblings then there is something so simple. Thankyou.

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  17. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Thanks for sharing your story @RaraMum it really puts it in perspective just how easy it is to go down that path, I'm so glad you got your life back on track!
    Sorry if it seems I hijacked the post! I just get carried away about certain topics (this obviously being one) and don't have any other evidence to base my opinons on other than personal experience. I really hope this didnt come across as credit seeking. I'm not looking for any congratulations on not being a drug addict. 😕

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