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  1. #31
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    Default Court to consider forced sterilisation of mother of 6

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamtam View Post
    Did you read my post? I never said it was okay for bbq tongs to be used in giving birth.

    But yes. ...social workers could have visited. Carers could be in place to make sure perhaps that she take the pill to stop pregnancy. Or if she was pregnant proper care could be administered and the babies properly cared for and maybe adopted. I'm just throwing out ideas. Any number of things could have occurred before it got to this point. That's the problem. Our society turns the other way and doesn't step in for intervention until these things become critical.

    Mainly because we don't value people like we should, regardless of their intellect. Case in point with the poster who said she should be committed.
    You really think regular visits from a caregiver would help prevent another pregancy? That someone who had 6 kids taken from her, failed to get healthcare during her pregnancies, birthed at home with a pair of tongs ... Could be trusted to be responsible and take a pill each day?

    There's a point where you've got to admit that someone can't look after themselves regardless of the injustices that may have led them to that point. I think the lady in this story has reached the limit.

    Maybe if the lady had intervention and better support early on then she might have had a fighting chance. Maybe not- maybe her problems were such that she was unfortunately doomed anyway. Regardless she clearly can't look after herself and the point of softly softly community health support has passed. IMO forced sterilisation or committal to a mental institution where she will have access to 24/7 care and treatment is the only thing that will protect her future children and herself. Being a fan of committal doesn't mean I don't value human life, it just means I am being realistic.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamtam View Post
    Far out. . You don't just 'commit' people because they are intellectually impaired.
    Totally agree. IMO it's when their lives or the lives of others are at risk that committal should be considered.

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  5. #33
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    If you read my post I said that prior to all of this occurring early intervention would have been good. There are places that do assisted living and the tenants get daily visits by nurses or social workers. In this instance daily contraceptive pills could have been given.
    There's no perfect answer here. Why did it take 6 pregnancies for something to happen? Why not the first pregnancy? If she's unable to care for the first baby adequately then how did something not happen sooner?
    Surely there is more to this story.

    And yes. .. If someone is a danger to them self or others. ...hospitalization should be sought.

  6. #34
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    I don't know enough to form a concrete opinion.

    For all I know, they have tried all sorts of contraception already. They would also have to use force to get her to use them though. And with long-term contraception, how would they know that she kept it in?

    I feel sad for her, her partner, their kids and any family/friends.
    I also feel sad that social services had to push for this decision.

    I just can't imagine that they would push for this without having explored other options.

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  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Queen of Amazingtown View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    I think I'm like Delirium, I'm not really sure how I feel about it. I'm just wondering though, given that five of the children have the same father and they are in a long term relationship, surely a forced vasectomy is/should be on the cards as well?
    Is should be considered, I guess.
    However, she is being forced because another pregnancy places her life at risk.
    Whereas that risk is not there for him... so what would be the reasoning?

    I mean, yes, if HE got her pregnant, he would be putting her life at risk, as much as she did. But there is nothing forcing him to make her pregnant. I mean, she is at risk from getting pregnant from any man.

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  10. #36
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    The pill is not 100% and who says they could have just not opened the door? Obviously they dont understand what they are doing is wrong therefore i doubt would have welcomed someone knocking everyday at the same time to force a pill down her throat. Not to mention the funds and resources that would cost over a period of her childbearing life.

    There is no way that someone walked into court and put something so drastic forward without having proof of trying other avenues. These people have probably had support but either dont listen or dont understand what is going on. There is no way 6 kids would have gone through the schooling system without having issues and needing intervention at home.

    I would feel the same if we were talking about a drug impaired family doing the same thing. Im concerned for the welfare of the children she brings into the world.

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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Butterfly39 View Post
    No to forced sterilisation of women under any circumstances.

    No court on this earth should have the power to surgically interfere with any woman's reproductive organs.

    Surely we as a society can create a better solution than this such as increased care/social work input.

    She is not a feral cat, and should not be treated this way, I think its a violation of human rights.
    The only increase care/input that would have helped, would be for someone to be making ALL their daily decisions. You can't force someone to swallow a pill. And you can't make that pill work, either.

    I am not saying I think forced sterilisation is what should be done. But we have NO idea what other avenues have been explored. Maybe every single 'other way' we have spoken of has been tried, and failed. Maybe this is what is left.

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  14. #38
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    Haven't read all the posts. My aunty has downs syndrome, she had a child with per partner who was intellectually impaired. They couldn't care for the child and she was removed from the mothers care. She was sterilised. That was 30 years ago and I'm not sure who's decision it was re her sterilisation but I feel it was the best decision for her considering her degree of intellectual disability. If it hadn't of happened she probably woukd have had more children who would have been removed from her care. I think some situations are warranted but it's a case by case scenario. Certainly there would be some people with intellectual disabilities that would have the capacity to care for children but also many that wouldn't.

  15. #39
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    What an awful story. The article mentions 6 children but also says her obstetric history is "tragic". So I wonder how many babies didn't survive?

    Who knows what has already been tried with this couple. Obviously their situation is extreme and I'm sure those seeking sterilization are doing so with her best interests in mind. If someone was constantly trying to harm themselves we would want the authorities to intervene, even if it meant detaining the person against their will. In this case, pregnancy seems to be the way she is harming herself.

    I don't like the idea of forcefully sterilizing someone but based on the info in that article, I think it is probably the best of a whole lot of awful outcomes (assuming that many other less invasive options have been adequately explored).

    How incredibly sad that she has lived such a tragic life.

  16. #40
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    I notice many people believe she should be sterilised as she is putting herself and children at risk. I have no judgment at all on that, like I said earlier I really don't know what my stance is.

    But I'm interested to know what others think of my earlier example. Non mentally impaired, but life long drug abuse and jail sentences. Baby after baby that are either abused or taken at birth from drug withdrawal. The woman in this story has an IQ of 70, which is right on the very cusp of an ID, but isn't one (ID is under 70) so really she is only autistic. Should drug abuse (and I'm talking decades worth not a bad run) class a person as not having the capacity to decide?


 

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