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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    After the thread about the horrible attack and deaths in Paris yesterday, I've always questioned when do jokes and cartoons Etc step over the line into offensive?

    Im one to take things very personally, I don't agree with poking fun at any religion, nationality, people with disabilities etc etc. So where is the line between humour and offensive in your mind?

    As it was widely stated, they took the **** out of everything, but again, where is that line?

    Eg if it was okay to poke fun at things like Islam, is it okay to make jokes about say:

    - the victims of terrorism
    - children with autism
    - Indigenous Australians
    - red heads
    - overweight people

    In my mind it would be in very poor taste and not acceptable in my opinion to poke fun at any of the above so I question why are their original cartoons (all of them - not just those about Islam) accepted as okay?

    Where is your line?

    Note: Though I disagree with the 'jokes' or 'satire' what ever you choose to call it of the publication, I DO NOT think it was at all the individuals fault they were killed - the terrorists are clearly 100% to blame - this post is just about as the title states the line between a joke and something being offensive?
    I think my line is when you
    1) say something that isn't true. And/or
    2) joke about someone going through a horrific event And/or
    3) attack someone who under normal circumstances can not properly defend themselves.

    So in your list I would count red heads, overweight people and potentially indigenous Australians as fair game.

  2. #12
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    You can laugh of everything just not with everyone.

    This particular satire was very irreverent. You can be shocked at the cartoons, it was their way of making you think.

    Nothing is off limit.

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  4. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think my line is when you
    1) say something that isn't true. And/or
    2) joke about someone going through a horrific event And/or
    3) attack someone who under normal circumstances can not properly defend themselves.

    So in your list I would count red heads, overweight people and potentially indigenous Australians as fair game.
    I guess I was taught that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. I guess potentially that's just part of the sheltered life I led growing up and that's perhaps a bit naive?

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    Here's what we are talking about.
    Do you find this shocking? Would you draw the line there? what does drawing the line means? Legislating to forbid publishing this drawing?

    It reads "A mole in Vatican". and the Pope says "it's different from altar boys"

    ImageUploadedByThe Bub Hub1420718872.502260.jpg

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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Here's what we are talking about.
    Do you find this shocking? Would you draw the line there? what does drawing the line means? Legislating to forbid publishing this drawing?

    It reads "A mole in Vatican". and the Pope says "it's different from altar boys"

    Attachment 65473
    I think something being offensive is one thing, but to legislate against publishing such things is another.

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    Where the 'line' is, is completely subjective, so its impossible to draw that line.

    For example someone may find this topic offensive considering the timing, regardless of the disclaimer.
    I think it comes down to freedom of speech, which trumps just about anything.
    I generally just don't read/watch what I find offensive as I'm against censorship.

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    There is no line.

    Freedom of speech is a pillar of a free and democratic society.

    "I may not agree with what you have to say but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" - Hall/Voltaire

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    I think there is a line when it comes to freedom of speech. For example, I think something that incites violence/ racial hatred crosses that line. Defamation crosses that line. In commercial transactions (which are clearly different to jokes/ cartoons) deceit and misrepresentation crosses that line.

    When George Brandis wanted to reform the racial vilification laws to allow for hate speech to be legalised, I personally was completely against those amendments. I believe in freedom of speech, but not totally unfetted freedom of speech, because I think that too can be dangerous.

    For example, I personally believe generally rape jokes are not acceptable because I consider they promote rape culture and this is dangerous to society.

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    Default Spin off - where is the line between humour and offensive cartoons and jokes?

    I'd thought I'd share some part of an interview of Charb, the editor in chief of Charlie Hebdo. He actually answered a question about that line that you are questioning OP.

    "What is the limit of freedom of speech and where does provocation begin?

    They are the limits of French law , which are rather well made. Although we could always aspire to more freedom.
    Moreover , justice is aware that we are a satirical newspaper , and therefore we are judged accordingly. We are not terrorists.
    The proof is that we won the case that we had filed in 2007 following the cover in which we could see the prophet saying "It's Hard Being Loved by Jerks."



    Honestly, isn't it pure thoughtlessness to publish this cartoon when the Arab world is already highly tensed with the movie "Innocence of Muslims"? Don't you think that you have a journalistic responsibility or at least a citizen responsibility?

    Our sole responsibility is to respect French law. We are a French newspaper, satirical, published in France and in some French-speaking countries such as Belgium.
    We are not published in Morocco or in Muslim countries. If it was the case, I would respect local laws, while trying to make them evolve.
    In France , there is no censorship, everyone can express one's ideas as one wishes. Moreover, we are not forcing anyone to read us, Charlie Hebdo is on sale on newsstands , it does not even publish its content on the website ... So it is a voluntary act of reading. We are not imposing this on anyone.



    You will agree that this is not the first time you publish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. Isn't it relentlessness?

    Those who say that do not read Charlie Hebdo. Out of 1058 issues, there are only three front pages on Islam. Every week we defend illgal migrants, many of whom are Muslims, we fight against racism and discrimination, we are fighting for the right to vote for immigrants... And personally, I was against the law against wearing the full-face veil. But the media never talk about Charlie Hebdo for these positions , which are rather in favor of Muslims.



    Moroccans, like the vast majority of Muslims, consider your editorial line Islamophobic. What do you think of that?

    The Islamophobic word bothers me. It literally means "fear of Islam". I'm an atheist and I'm not afraid of the Muslim religion, but afraid of extremists of all faiths.
    I do not hate religions, I do not like them either, I refuse and I would never be religious. I am not Islamophobic as I am not, either, Judeophobic, cathophobe or bouddhistophobe ...



    Aren't you scared for your physical safety ?

    I have been under police protection since 2011, since the publication of " Sharia Hebdo" . It's very restricting in everyday life, especially in Paris, to be constantly monitored. But I 'm not afraid of reprisals. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credit. It might sound a little pompous, but I'd rather die standing than live on my knees ."
    Last edited by ExcuseMyFrench; 09-01-2015 at 10:49.

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