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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I keep waiting for a huge street March from an Islamic community somewhere around the world denouncing these attacks. And it's not happening, which is challenging everything I value and defend during these times :-(

    This world is a scary place atm.
    I don't know, I don't think Muslims have to march against these attacks as Muslims. I'm sure they are in the street as civilians against terrorism.

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    Default Shocked. They attacked and killed 11ppl at a newspaper office in Paris

    I'm sure they are too. I'm not making much sense I know. Just...maybe extremists would listen to 'their own people' and maybe ignorant people who tar all Muslim believers with the same terrorist brush would back off a bit or something? I don't know. It's just so upsetting and honestly it feels as if these attacks are going to be almost impossible to prevent.

    And then I worry about 'revenge attacks' on innocent people. I mean people were slaughtering sting rays in 'revenge attacks' after Steve Irwin died. Lots of people are lots of stupid.

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    I get what you're saying harvs. I wish these great interviews that Muslim leaders are doing would get front page coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I'm sure they are too. I'm not making much sense I know. Just...maybe extremists would listen to 'their own people' and maybe ignorant people who tar all Muslim believers with the same terrorist brush would back off a bit or something?
    I understand where you're coming from Harvs but I don't think it would work like that. From what I understand Islamic extremists tend to think of western moderate Muslims like myself as not real Muslims; Islamic leaders the world over have constantly denounced what they're doing but they don't care, according to their twisted ideology they seem to think they have the moral high ground .

    As for changing the minds of ignorant people who tar all Muslims with the same brush, I can't speak for anyone else but personally I've given up on that. It's been over a decade since 9/11, we've had Mosque open days, harmony days, marches, leaders on TV denouncing terrorism (which rarely even gets media coverage) but enough is enough, some of us are tired of having to constantly apologise for something that isn't our fault. Some of the things I see on social media and in the real world have convinced me that there are people who are so full of hate towards Muslims I doubt anything would change their minds; and that's their problem not mine, I can't take responsibility for having to change their narrow minded views.

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  6. #95
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    according to the morning 'breaking news' the 2 brothers have been killed - along with 4 hostages

    1 female terrorist still out there

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    You're right. I suppose I was thinking about what can be done to stop these sorts of people, and all I could think was a very clear 'don't do these things in my name' sort of thing from people that they might actually respect.
    One of the best strategies I have heard is to openly and vocally support:

    - high profile progressive Muslims whether they be politicians, academics, actors, activists, comedians or otherwise.
    - those actively supporting Muslims in poorer, undeveloped countries to provide education not just to children but adults, skills and health care.

    I think there is also a lot to be said about learning the basics of Islam. This can then enable people to articulate and reason the valid issues with aspects of Islam as opposed the current situation where we are given 2 points of view:
    1. The redneck "Muslims are all [insert derogatory adjective] and should go back to where they came from.
    2. We need to be tolerant of all people regardless if they are intolerant, advocate undesirable practices/values and if we don't we're a bigot.

    In the interest of supporting some progressive Muslims here are some links!!

    Negin Farsad - an American comedian, actress, writer and filmmaker of Iranian descent
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJcP4OjFh1Q

    The Moral Courage YouTube channel has quite a few clips of inspiring Muslims and their stories.
    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbp94Mntcb2IV9n4BtHXpUg

    I have been trying to find the name of a British man who from memory was jailed for terrorism/extremism but is now very much a progressive Muslim and advocates a much more progressive form is Islam. I just can't find his name anywhere. GRRRR!!!

    Molly Melching - founder of the Tostan NGO who has driven programs throughout Senegal and other African countries bringing education based on human rights, employment skills and significantly - helped to significantly reduce the frequency of FGM in these communities. (Melching is originally from the USA but Senegal is predominantly a Muslim country.)

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali - Academic, writer, former politician and activist.
    She was recently interviewed on the ABC on her thoughts about the events in Paris and what she believed to be the solution is to the issue of radical Islam and violence/terrorism. (link) Her background gives her an inside understanding of Islam and extremism.

    Dr Hawa Abdi who is a doctor and lawyer living in Somalia with her daughters who are also doctors. She runs a refugee camp for around 90,000 women and children that includes a hospital and school. Link to TED talk

    Mukhtar Mai - a Pakistani woman who defied social custom that expected her to suicide after a particularly brutal rape and went on to open a school for girls to provide education to girls as means of empowerment. (She enrolled herself when she first opened the school as she had not been to school before.) She also opened a school for boys. Her foundation continues to support girls and women in poor areas of Pakistan receive a basic education. (link)

    There are PLENTY of others but these are just a few people who came to mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    But then I thought about the Westboro Uniting Church, and no amount of Christian protests could change their beliefs... It just makes me so sad, and the wider impact on the Muslim community is just awful.
    Sorry, I keep quoting you

    There have been a number of instances where people have left the Westbro Baptist Church, most notably about 2 years ago 2 sisters left. In an interview one of them described the point where she started to question her own beliefs - it was during very civil online discussion with a Jewish man who pointed out that if they believed homosexuals should die, how can Jesus redeem/forgive them? (link)

    The WBC isn't really worth worrying about to be honest. They are about 30 people who will eventually die out (they can only marry within the Church). The very worst thing they do is be highly offensive - they thrive on publicity so the best course of action is to ignore them. To the best of my knowledge they have never threatened to carry out violence to forward their cause.

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    Default Shocked. They attacked and killed 11ppl at a newspaper office in Paris

    Quote Originally Posted by BH-KatiesMum View Post
    according to the morning 'breaking news' the 2 brothers have been killed - along with 4 hostages

    1 female terrorist still out there
    Really? This is the current bbc article

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30752239

    Eta: sorry, just saw the girl at the bottom, but she may not have had anything to do with it.
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 10-01-2015 at 12:51.

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    Default Shocked. They attacked and killed 11ppl at a newspaper office in Paris

    Quote Originally Posted by harvs View Post
    I'm sure they are too. I'm not making much sense I know. Just...maybe extremists would listen to 'their own people' and maybe ignorant people who tar all Muslim believers with the same terrorist brush would back off a bit or something?
    They would but they are not their own people. To the extremists they are tamed Muslims and not living by the sharia law.
    They picked France also because it has the largest Muslim community in Europe and they hope that these Muslims get ostracised by the terrorists exactions.
    Last edited by ExcuseMyFrench; 13-01-2015 at 18:20.

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