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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Sorry to hear things are still difficult for you

    My guess is unchanged: I am
    betting bub is going down too late, possibly too hungry (solids? How often are milk feeds?). Combined with patting/rocking to sleep poor bub is not yet able to self settle.

    My tips:
    - As mentioned in other threads I would look into the timing of the sleeps and feeds.
    - start encouraging self settling at home so bub can sleep better when out. Wean off the rocking/patting to sleep. I know you said you don't mind this, however bubs inability to self settle at home is directly connected to the inability to sleep out of the home.
    - start putting bub down somewhere different at home for the same day nap. Day after day. I used to put bub to sleep for his 4:30 nap in the rocking chair each day. To basically encourage him to be comfortable sleeping in different places.
    - always put bub to sleep with the same comforter and where possible bedding. No matter where they are sleeping. Eg if you use a grobag in the cot, use a travel grobag in the pram. Only give bub his comforter at sleep time (so it remains a sleep cue). This will help bub to be more comfortable when sleeping out and about.
    - cover the pram with a blockout sheet/blanket.

    I hope this doesn't come across as harsh because it's not my intention to be hurtful. You sound like a really lovely mumma who is struggling... You are a battler fighting on for help and answers because you want the best for bub. Nothing is going to change until you get help for your anxiety. This has got to come first. Secondly I think professional help in the form of sleep school is needed. I personally think bubs sleeping is being made worse by the lack of routine and patting/rocking etc to sleep. Something needs to change with these key issues in order for things to get easier for you. Continuing to seek advice and then maintaining the status quo/making minor tweaks here and there won't really change a thing. I am definitely not trying to discourage you from continuing to seek advice on here, but unless real changes are made I am not sure any of it is going to be of use (unless you just want to vent, which is ok!).
    Great advice. Bub needs to learn to self settle and not rely on being patted and rocked to sleep. Perhaps regular walks in the pram to get bubs more used to it.

  2. #32
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    Heartstringz I would also suggest sleep school. I have always seen you posting and be able to relate to your problems so much, so I know you are going through a really hard time right now.
    I never thought about sleep school before, as I thought it was too expensive for us. However, one day after calling Ngala help line when I was on the absolute end of my tether they said it was means tested. I'm pretty sure Ngala is a WA thing, but is there one similar in your state? They told me a lot about it and they offer a range of sleeping solutions, not just crying it out. I'm booked in to go at the end of december. I'm happy to have the day where someone is physically with me and showing me what to do. I think it's going to clear my head space a lot and give me, baby and hubby some consistency from a clean slate.
    I really hope things start looking up for you soon hun. Parenting is a hard gig, but remember super woman isn't real and it's good to cut yourself some slack and take care of yourself first!

  3. #33
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    I went to sleep school with 2 of my 3 boys.

    The first time, I waited too long. He could stand in his cot, the protesting went on for longer, it wasn't super pleasant and I actually told them that I refused to leave him in the room alone to cry it out.. No biggie, I stated with him. It helped a lot.


    The 2nd time, with ds2, I got in early. He didn't even have a chance to learn how to not sleep.

    I went to a private but accredited sleep school at 3 weeks of age. She was lovely. She helped me get a routine in place that worked for me, him and his big brother. And to this day, he is still an awesome sleeper.

    OP, it's not just about the sleep, it's also about YOU getting some rest. You will get a chance to have some time to yourself with support from the staff, you will get to talk to other mums and bounce ideas off each other.

    Dh and I actually even got to go on a date night whilst at sleep school.. The nurses said they'd resettle him and we were allowed to go out and be back in 2 hours time.

    It was the best thing I did. I actually would have been happy to go with ds3 as well even if his sleep was good, you just get a chance to regroup and compose yourself.

  4. #34
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    I'm going to against the grain and say rocking and patting doesn't always lead to poor sleeping and lack of self settling. My eldest in particular was a fabulous sleeper that slept through on her own by 6 weeks old.

    I'm not saying sleep school doesn't work, or is bad. But I do know many of them use ccing. That was from the horses mouth, and they seemed surprised I would even ask, saying of course they encouraged parents to let their children cry in a controlled environment. Again, I'm not here to debate it's worthiness or say it's evil, just expect they will tell you to let them cry.

    What I do agree with is VP's comment about your anxiety. From reading all your threads I see a loving mother who is totally overwhelmed by it all and is missing the cues your bub is sending you that they are tired/hungry and by the time you get there it's gone past the point of no return. That's zero judgment, but I think you need to get a firm hold over your anxiety, breathe, and learn your child's cues.

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  6. #35
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    Sorry I have to disagree about the cc at sleep school. I took DS and there was not one minute of cc. Different schools have different techniques. Some may use it and I've heard about a few that do. But DS was shooshed and patted and never left to be distressed and alone.

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  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenBlue View Post
    Sorry I have to disagree about the cc at sleep school. I took DS and there was not one minute of cc. Different schools have different techniques. Some may use it and I've heard about a few that do. But DS was shooshed and patted and never left to be distressed and alone.
    Fair enough, but I know QEII in Canberra use it, although they don't call it that.

  9. #37
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    This is from Pinky McKay and is quite good

    Baby Cues – What Is My Baby Saying?

    Baby cues are your baby’s way of trying to tell you what he or she needs. Although it may take a few weeks to get to know your baby’s cues, or non-verbal language, if you do some baby-watching, you will be amazed at how even very young babies can give clear signals that they want to interact, would prefer to be given a break from play, are tired or hungry.Responding to your baby’s cues (day and night), will help your baby develop a sense of trust in his ability to influence his environment and will help him form a secure attachment to you. These are important prerequisites for later emotional development and relationships. Your responsiveness will also help your baby learn what psychologists call ‘emotional regulation’ which is the capacity to understand that we have control over our emotions. As you soothe your baby, you are teaching him that when he is upset, he can calm down. When babies’ signals are ignored, and they escalate to cries that are not responded to, the baby fails to develop the understanding that he can regulate his own emotions.

    Baby Cue#1: I’m Hungry

    Babies give a lot of subtle cues that they are ready to feed, long before they begin to cry – from rooting with their mouths to making sucking noises and trying to suck on their fists, as well as little noises that say, ‘I’m working up to a cry’. If these signals are ignored, they will yell. Crying is a late hunger cue and when we repeatedly wait until a young baby cries (sometimes it is unavoidable), we can set ourselves on a path to unnecessary feeding problems. Notice where your baby’s tongue is when she is yelling – a baby can’t latch on to feed when her tongue is up against the roof of her mouth, and if you do manage to calm her enough to latch on and feed, her suck is likely to be disorganised, or she may be exhausted from crying and only take a small feed before falling asleep. This, of course, means that she will probably sleep for a very short time then wake for another feed as her tiny tummy quickly empties.

    Baby Cue #2: Play With Me

    Tiny babies have very short periods where they can actually ‘engage’ and interact with you, but as she grows, your little one will be able to play for longer periods and her signals will become much clearer. When your baby wants you to play, her eyes will become wide and bright and she may purse her tiny lips as though she is saying ‘ooh’ as she turns towards your voice or looks at your face. Movements of her arms and legs will be smooth (as opposed to jerky) as she reaches out to you – she might grasp your finger or hold onto you. If you respond, your baby will make eye contact and smile, coo, babble or talk. These signals, or ‘engagement cues’ are your baby’s way of saying, ‘Please play with me.’

    Baby Cue #3: Give Me A Break

    When your baby needs a break from what she is doing, she will give very clear ‘disengaging’ signals such as looking away (little babies can only maintain eye contact for short periods so may look away then continue gazing at you after a break) or turning her head away, squirming or kicking, coughing, spitting up or arching her back. Some babies will even put up their hand in a sort of ‘stop’ sign.

    More subtle cues that your baby is tiring from playing or needs a change of pace or perhaps a change of activity, may be yawning, wrinkling her forehead or frowning, and hiccuping. If you keep playing when your baby tries to tell you she wants to stop, she will become agitated and make thrashing movements, or she will start fussing and crying.

    Baby Cue #4: I’m Sleepy

    None of us like being kept awake when we are craving sleep, so rather than waiting until your baby is ‘past it’, put her to bed as soon as she shows sleepy signs such as becoming quiet, losing interest in people and toys, making jerky movements (in small babies) or becoming very still (these babies relax and fall asleep easily), yawning, frowning or knotting her eyebrows, clenching her fists into tight balls, rubbing her eyes and ears and fussing. If you miss this window of opportunity, your baby is likely to become grumpy and find it difficult to settle. If you miss your baby’s tired signs, she may become hyped up and will be much harder to settle.Although these cues are typical signs that most babies use to elicit the care they need, individual babies will not use all of these cues all of the time. Each baby will develop his own mix of signals. For instance, one tired baby may lie still and watch her tiny fist as she becomes increasingly drowsy, another may have less control over his movements which could be jerky if he is young, or seemingly uncoordinated if he is already mobile, and yet another baby may rub his eyes and fuss.As you play with your baby you will often notice a mixture of engagement and disengagement signals, so take your time getting to know your baby’s way of communicating when she is enjoying playing, when she is feeling a bit overwhelmed and needs a break, and when she is becoming hungry or tired. Your baby’s signals may seem unclear but by spending lots of time just watching your baby and being present with her, along with some trial and error working out what your baby is telling you, you will soon become attuned to each other. Your baby will develop his own unique way of communicating with each person in his world and you and your partner will learn to respond in just the way that suits your baby.

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  11. #38
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    Heartstringz, perhaps you can dot point each of these and in the morning start writing down or ticking off the list each of the signs your bub is giving you.

    Then if you think he's giving a hungry sign, feed him. If he's not interested mark down what you tried so you can discount that the next time and try something else.

    It might take a week or so but perhaps you will start to see a pattern in what you've written or what you do after each sign will start to work.

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