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  1. #11
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    My DS (10 weeks) is exactly the same as yours, even down to the fast let down and choking. I was told by the child health nurse that they outgrow their tummy issues by around 3ish months which is when their tummies start maturing and coping better. I use infacol and infants friend, baths, tummy pressure, and bicycle legs to help with the wind. Fast let down has been an issue that has been difficult to deal with for me personally and I've tried all the feeding positions, I just found that he has been dealing with the choking/letdown better as he's got bigger (which is what I was told by the lactation midwife and the GP). A couple of times DS has had greenish poo too but I don't know anything about intolerances so I'm not sure about that (I did dr google at the time though and it said that it was pretty normal for BF babies? Not sure).

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    Oh I would like to add I have a very fast letdown too and used to spray everywhere if ds unlatched.

    As with the green poos that can be normal in bfing babies, usually due to too much foremilk (also related to a strong letdown).

    Eta: I have block fed since ds was very young due to oversupply.

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    Last edited by AdornedWithCats; 28-11-2014 at 18:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A-Squared View Post
    Here's some background:

    DS is 9 weeks on Sunday and still cluster feeds in the evenings (sometimes even from 2:30!) He's also catnapping in the day other than one good sleep of 2-4 hours. He's usually very unsettled and always grunting and pushing like he's trying to either fart or poo.

    I have a few questions:
    1. My boobs don't feel as full any more, is this because they are used to knowing how much DS needs?

    2. I find that he feeds and will pretty much fall asleep or come off the boob for all of his feeds, so I think he's done and I put him down but then he only sleeps 10-15 minutes and wakes again, I'm unsure if this is from hunger or discomfort. Should I be waking him even if I think he's done to try and put him on again to make sure he's done?

    3. He still struggles to get his burps up and is always groaning and grunting and straining to fart, especially whilst feeding. He doesn't have green poos so I don't think it's a dairy intolerance, I think it could be his immature system getting used to processing his feeds. Is it possible to have an intolerance without green poo. Also when do they typically outgrow all of the wind and rock hard tummy issues? DD had silent reflux and CMPI and screamed all the time. DS doesn't scream in pain (though has once or twice) like she did, but the other symptoms are the same. I'm just not sure if I bode my time waiting for his system to mature, or if I should be going down the route of an elimination diet.

    Sorry for all the questions and my rambling, part of me wants to switch to formula as he's also always choking on my fast let down which I think gives him terrible wind which I think leads to all of the straining he's always doing, but if I can be reassured all is normal and he will outgrow these things by 3/4 months I want to commit to keep going.

    Oh and as a side note It's the convenience of breastfeeding I want to continue with, which is the only reason I don't want to switch to formula, but at the end of the day I want to do what is going to make DS the most settled, which ever way of feeding that might be.

    TIA
    1. You are spot on
    2. Try keeping bub awake when feeding by tickling feet/putting a wet face washer on bubs feet/face etc. Or stop half way, get up, walk around then sit back down to finish the feed. Always offer bith boobs. The idea is the more bub takes in the longer bub will sleep. That being said bub is probably waking after 15 mins because bub is falling asleep on the boob. Then when bub stirs between cycles or whenever and the boob isn't there bub goes "wtf... Where is my boob!". It is sometimes easier said than done but if you can put bub to bed drowsy but awake bub will sleep longer and have better night sleep down the track.

    3. Not sure about intolerances. My bub was a spewer until about 4 months. What helped? Infacol, plenty of regular burping (every 3 minutes when he was younger). Don't go down an elimination diet route without checking with a doctor/MACH nurse (a lot of fussing around and if it's not needed you don't want to be doing it).

    In summary breastfeeding sucked for me for the first 2-3 months but after that it is soooooooooooo much easier, enjoyable ... Cheap.

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    Hi! Sounds like my 10 week old. His cluster feeding has just dropped off this week. He often wakes 5-10 mins after falling asleep, which I attribute to either wind or over tiredness- over tired bubs can wake up in their light sleep stages. I don't really have any advice, just solidarity. Remember FF is a slippery slope and its hard to come back from it if bub does end up more windy from formula.

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    You first statement got me thinking. For a 9 week old i would be trying to get 3 one hour or so naps in rather than expecting a 2-3 hour. Its not until they are around one (well my kids anyway) that they change to one big nap. You say she cat napping. Is he hungry when he wakes up? if so i would try and wake him when he falls alseep (just take him off the boob, hold him up for burp), get him to feel more then put him down.
    I wouldnt be expecting him to be awake for more than 2 hours as this age. Do you do the feed, play, (feed) sleep? Generally (my bubs) would wake in the morning around 7.30, feed, have a bit of a play (lay on the floor, a walk in the pram, a play with toys), feed again about 9am then sleep(they would fall asleep on the boob). Wake at about 10, feed, then play again, feed again about 11.30, sleep, wake at 1, feed, play, feed, sleep about 3 pm, wake about 4, feed, cluster feed til around 8 then sleep. would wake a couple of times in the night for feeds. then do it all again.
    I would try and increase his time between feeds, just so he takes a bit more and gets fuller. You want to be feeding for at least 15 mins, this will allowe bub to get the hind milk which is richer and therefore keeps him fuller longer.

    As for the wind, i would just hold him up for about 5 mins over your shoulder, even if hes alseep, then put him down.

    Its very usual for BF bubs to go a long time between bowel movements...my DS when 14 days once.

    Good luck, you are doing great!!

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  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    Congratulations to making it to 9 weeks!!
    9 weeks is still very little and he is still very much getting used to things including how his body works and all the natural feelings that come with it and your let down speed.

    Breast fed babies (especially newborns) will often get 'milk drunk' during a feed. They will appear to get all drowsy and pass out but it's only for a few minutes. Then they wake and will probably want more b00b!

    It's my experience that BF babies will often be more unsettled that FF babies but that is normal and nothing to worry about.

    Catnapping is also normal, I speak as a mum who had 2 catnappers. At about 3 months DS became a catnapper and sleep for about 30-40 minutes at a time. Then DD came along and would sleep for 15 minutes at a time and I would dream about a baby that would sleep for 40 minutes!!
    Early on he was a great sleeper, 1.5 to 3 hours each sleep day and night but it's only recently changed. The 40 minute ones don't bother me it's more the constant feeding and losing track of where I'm at with him, I end up confused as to whether he's tired, hungry or needs a burp.

    Quote Originally Posted by [Mod] Nomsie View Post
    Ok with the trying to continue a feed, I personally would. I live by the motto "if in doubt, whip it out" but having a full and content baby makes life easier, right?

    Around 12 weeks he should start to settle down and be able to process the wind much more efficiently. Don't forget to allow for time if he was born early.

    Can intolerances be present even in the absence of green poo? I would say its possible, even if unlikely. Do you have access to a lactation consultant at all? Failing that, is there an ABA group local to you?
    I'm thinking if seeing a lactation consultant who can maybe talk me through the issues I have, perhaps I'm holding him wrong or his latch is wrong. How do I go about finding a good LC?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeavenBlue View Post
    Have you tried infacol or similar to help with wind? DS had a lot of issues when he was very young and I used infacol. Worked well for us. Definitely helped him get his burps and farts out more easily.
    Infacol unfortunately doesn't help at all I persisted for 5 weeks with it and no improvement

    Quote Originally Posted by chickenfoot83 View Post
    How does he sleep overnight? Have you tried reclined feeding so your let down isn't as fast?
    Overnight I can't complain, once he goes down finally (no later than 9:30) he wakes at around 2 or 3, then 5:30 up until 8ish. Some night he feeds well, I hold him up to burp him for 5-10 minutes and out him down, other times we are up for a total of up to 1.5 hours as he's fussing with gas and I can't get him to settle. The reclining doesn't seem to help, I've tried that too.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdornedWithCats View Post
    Have you tried infants friend?

    Honestly it sounds quite normal my ds was a lot like this at that age. He grew out of the wind (& reflux) but the napping didn't really improve, he doesn't seem to need much sleep during the day. Often he will have 1 half hour nap and a 1hr nap. Ds is still bfing at 10 months.

    Sent from my GT-I9305 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    I haven't tried this yet, what are the ingredients? Similar to infacol or is it more if a gripe water / homeopathic water?

    Quote Originally Posted by [Mod] Nomsie View Post
    Oh I forgot to say- I had a very fast let down with my twins and it made them super gassy. I saw my lc who told me as soon as they start to gulp (usually coincides with the letdown) to detach them, sit them up and burp them. I used to keep on flowing like an open tap if they weren't on the breast, so I just shoved a terry flat on my boob and let that absorb everything. Put him back on, let him suck, pull him off as soon as he starts to gulp again. Rinse and repeat. It made feeds longer, but my letdown did eventually slow down some, and the older they get the better they can deal with the fast flow so it won't be forever. It was *the* only way that worked and I could have kissed the woman once I saw the change it made!
    Wow, I didn't know it was possible for my let down to slow down, I'll have to give that tip a go, thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlygirl View Post
    My DS (10 weeks) is exactly the same as yours, even down to the fast let down and choking. I was told by the child health nurse that they outgrow their tummy issues by around 3ish months which is when their tummies start maturing and coping better. I use infacol and infants friend, baths, tummy pressure, and bicycle legs to help with the wind. Fast let down has been an issue that has been difficult to deal with for me personally and I've tried all the feeding positions, I just found that he has been dealing with the choking/letdown better as he's got bigger (which is what I was told by the lactation midwife and the GP). A couple of times DS has had greenish poo too but I don't know anything about intolerances so I'm not sure about that (I did dr google at the time though and it said that it was pretty normal for BF babies? Not sure).
    I hope you're right about the 3 month thing, just 1 month to go. Perhaps a LC can offer advice on the intolerance side of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    1. You are spot on
    2. Try keeping bub awake when feeding by tickling feet/putting a wet face washer on bubs feet/face etc. Or stop half way, get up, walk around then sit back down to finish the feed. Always offer bith boobs. The idea is the more bub takes in the longer bub will sleep. That being said bub is probably waking after 15 mins because bub is falling asleep on the boob. Then when bub stirs between cycles or whenever and the boob isn't there bub goes "wtf... Where is my boob!". It is sometimes easier said than done but if you can put bub to bed drowsy but awake bub will sleep longer and have better night sleep down the track.

    3. Not sure about intolerances. My bub was a spewer until about 4 months. What helped? Infacol, plenty of regular burping (every 3 minutes when he was younger). Don't go down an elimination diet route without checking with a doctor/MACH nurse (a lot of fussing around and if it's not needed you don't want to be doing it).

    In summary breastfeeding sucked for me for the first 2-3 months but after that it is soooooooooooo much easier, enjoyable ... Cheap.
    I will definitely try harder to keep him awake while I'm feeding, not sure why I haven't tried that so far - perhaps as I'm happy to think he may fall asleep.

    He never really feeds to sleep as such, I still usually hold him and pat or rock him to sleep, but more refer to him falling asleep while he's feeding and cutting the feed short. If he cat naps even for 15 minutes he's usually awake after the feed and I hold him for 5-10 minutes before putting him down, but I'm pretty sure he's waking as he's not had enough but falls asleep as he's so tired.

    From birth I'd always make sure his awake times weren't any longer than an hour to an hour 15, but his wind and tummy issues seem to be getting worse, so he's awake for far longer than that now and always goes into over tired territory.

    DD is CMPI so at least with an elimination diet I know what I can and can't have which is a good start if it comes to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilahh View Post
    Hi! Sounds like my 10 week old. His cluster feeding has just dropped off this week. He often wakes 5-10 mins after falling asleep, which I attribute to either wind or over tiredness- over tired bubs can wake up in their light sleep stages. I don't really have any advice, just solidarity. Remember FF is a slippery slope and its hard to come back from it if bub does end up more windy from formula.
    Yep, our bubs sound exactly alike!

    I agree about it being a slippery slope, I have good supply so I don't want to wreck that, especially after BFing DD was a disaster (poor supply and CMPI), but I guess if he is CMPI as well then it may be a reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by loislane2010 View Post
    You first statement got me thinking. For a 9 week old i would be trying to get 3 one hour or so naps in rather than expecting a 2-3 hour. Its not until they are around one (well my kids anyway) that they change to one big nap. You say she cat napping. Is he hungry when he wakes up? if so i would try and wake him when he falls alseep (just take him off the boob, hold him up for burp), get him to feel more then put him down.
    I wouldnt be expecting him to be awake for more than 2 hours as this age. Do you do the feed, play, (feed) sleep? Generally (my bubs) would wake in the morning around 7.30, feed, have a bit of a play (lay on the floor, a walk in the pram, a play with toys), feed again about 9am then sleep(they would fall asleep on the boob). Wake at about 10, feed, then play again, feed again about 11.30, sleep, wake at 1, feed, play, feed, sleep about 3 pm, wake about 4, feed, cluster feed til around 8 then sleep. would wake a couple of times in the night for feeds. then do it all again.
    I would try and increase his time between feeds, just so he takes a bit more and gets fuller. You want to be feeding for at least 15 mins, this will allowe bub to get the hind milk which is richer and therefore keeps him fuller longer.

    As for the wind, i would just hold him up for about 5 mins over your shoulder, even if hes alseep, then put him down.

    Its very usual for BF bubs to go a long time between bowel movements...my DS when 14 days once.

    Good luck, you are doing great!!
    Yes, he's hungry when he wakes from his catnaps. I don't really expect a 3-4 hour nap, but he inevitably will sleep that long once a day given his tiny sleeps and lots of feeds during each morning.

    I guess he also when he was born and for the first 7ish weeks, he would be on a great feed, "play", feed sleep routine and would go off to sleep without a fuss and feed well and sleep for 1-3 hours, it's just been recently the catnapping has started. The grassiness and grunting has always been around, but it seems to bother him so much more the last week or so that it's now interfering with his feeding and settling.

    I will keep the 15 minute feed time in mind and try and stretch him out as much as possible, I do think the heap of fore milk he's getting is likely contributing to his gassiness.

  8. #17
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    Hi OP! I FF my DD so can't help with the food thing but the tummy issues sound like my DD around that age when she was feeding. We found when she started doing the grunt thing if we burped her as much as we could then lay her down sans nappy (with a towel, JIC) and bicycles her legs/rubbed her tummy in a kind of curved downward motion it helped get her far to out then she'd finish her feed and we'd do it again then she'd nap. Sometimes being held in a warm shower while doing the tummy rub thing helped too.
    Good luck with BF and congrats on making it to 9 weeks!

  9. #18
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    Op if its just a recent thing could it be a wonder week? Ds would always get fussier with feeds and sleep when he was in one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdornedWithCats View Post
    Op if its just a recent thing could it be a wonder week? Ds would always get fussier with feeds and sleep when he was in one.

    Sent from my GT-I9305 using The Bub Hub mobile app
    According to the WW app, yeah he's in the second leap, you could be onto something there.

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    My LO cluster fed for what felt like forever.

    I think for her it was just a comfort thing.

    She also did the 10 minute sleep.
    I found (I'm not sure if it's for you) that if i carried her in the manduca carrier she slept during the day.

    It was the middle of a hot summer but at least she got some sleep and I had two free hands.

    I don't think it sounds like there is anything wrong with your milk.
    To me it just sounds like normal baby stuff, I could have written that post myself.
    I found DD settled better from around 4 months.


 

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