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  1. #131
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    Ellewood, Australians aren't outraged because a lot don't care. Because patriarchy. Because having an open honest discussion about how problematic toxic masculinity is, is a risk. Because the only way we can change things is if EVERY man assesses and analyzes his actions and beliefs and encourages change within themselves and other men. Because we can't hurt the precious feelings of men (i know i sound bitter. I'm not though...i'm angry).

    In saying that, i find it extremely offensive that you would use domestic violence to try and derail a conversation about child abuse, whether you intended to or not. Both domestic violence victims/survivors and child abuse victims/survivors deserve better than that. These discussions need their own platforms unless we're discussing how one relates to the other.

    The fact is, we don't know why she did what she did. It could have been mental illness, it could have been a feeling of total disconnect, she could have been in a horrific situation that left her unable to think clearly. Or she could have been a callous person who just didn't care. I'm not going to defend her. There will be consequences to her actions, but this is something that HAS to be talked about. Maybe finding babies in drains is rare. But parents abusing and murdering their kids happens all the time. Every day. The specific story is unique, but the basics are common. There are reasons most child abuse cases aren't publicized.

    And then there is the issue of the fact so many women don't get the help they need. Even if that's not the case in this situation, discussing it won't hurt.
    Last edited by hopeful1986; 24-11-2014 at 18:27.

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  3. #132
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    Another good article from the Guardian.

    "We don't know why a mum abandoned her newborn baby. But we do know that the system fails mothers"

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-fails-mothers

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  5. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ellewood View Post
    Well I disagree. I don't believe stories like this are common or even occur often enough to require 'social change'. A mother killing her child is not something we as a society need to cry social change over, because it is so rare and again, in my opinion, is an issue for trained professionals to deal with. The public really have no understanding of this situation and screaming about it helps absolutely nobody.
    *If* mental health or poor maternal care is at the core of this issue then that is something that requires social change. Unfortunately it takes a few high profile cases in order for change to occur. Just look at what the Luke Battie case has done for Domestic Violence awareness.

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  7. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Another good article from the Guardian.

    "We don't know why a mum abandoned her newborn baby. But we do know that the system fails mothers"

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-fails-mothers
    I do agree with this. Resources are stretched so badly, women are slipping through the cracks, be they experiencing PND, or with a propensity for abusing their children. While Australia has a much better health system than some countries, there are still huge gaps. And the midwives in particular who are the front line are the ones bearing the brunt from every angle.

  8. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I do agree with this. Resources are stretched so badly, women are slipping through the cracks, be they experiencing PND, or with a propensity for abusing their children. While Australia has a much better health system than some countries, there are still huge gaps. And the midwives in particular who are the front line are the ones bearing the brunt from every angle.
    Yes, how can the medical teams identify risky cases when they only meet the pregnant women once during their pregnancy?

    Also if the cyclists hadn't found the baby, if no one had found it, would the system know that a child had disappeared/die?
    I was wondering how this happens?

    It's terrifying to think that you can be born and disappear in the same week without anyone noticing or raising the alarm.

  9. #136
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    I'd also like to mention that mothers are put under severe scrutiny about everything. From pressures to feel connected to their baby from the second it's born to always knowing what the baby's cry means to being happy all the time to only breastfeeding for the first one to two years of life because formula is the devil to basically every single decision a mother makes. And heaven forbid a mother admitting they are unhappy. The outside world is not supportive. There are factors involved in the choice this woman made and those factors shouldn't be ignored. You don't have to feel sympathy for her to understand the system doesn't work.

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  11. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Yes, how can the medical teams identify risky cases when they only meet the pregnant women once during their pregnancy?
    And the stay in big hospitals like Quakers Hill is literally hours. The amount of time with each women would be in literally minutes. A woman feeling vulnerable, depressed or not wanting her child won't feel enough rapport to bear their souls.

    It's not that I don't feel empathy for women with genuine PND issues. I absolutely 100% do. My issue is that I feel this woman, barring psychosis needs to take responsibility. She did have options. Granted a mind swimming in depression doesn't think clearly, but millions of women with PND don't do this. Maybe I feel so strongly bc I am pg and everytime he moves I feel this swell of love. Maybe it's important I realise that's not everyone's experience. Still. You don't throw your baby down a drain.

    She may not have even had PND, who knows.
    Last edited by delirium; 24-11-2014 at 19:00.

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  13. #138
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    Default *trigger warning* baby found down drain

    Yes she had options, the easiest one would have been to leave hospital without her baby and put him up for adoption.

    I can't comprehend someone without mental issues doing this. Such a poor choice.
    Any other option would have been better for everyone involved.
    I mean she is the one who will end up in jail for years.

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  15. #139
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    Yep as I said earlier, had she left him in hospital or dumped him on a doorstep I would have still found it very sad but would have felt so much more empathy for her. Clearly she can't/doesn't want to care for the child. Pack your bag, leave him behind and don't look back. Let him be adopted out to a family that will love him.

    It's not the idea she didn't want him that I'm struggling so much with. It's what she did to him.

    You may well be right. She may have some severe psychological issues.

  16. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post
    Another good article from the Guardian.

    "We don't know why a mum abandoned her newborn baby. But we do know that the system fails mothers"

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-fails-mothers
    I haven't read the whole thread but I completely agree with this quote. I know someone who is mildly disabled, maybe on the autism spectrum but never diagnosed. She got into a relationship with a real loser of a guy who was in his 40s when she was in her early 20s. In no time at all, she was pregnant. Tragically, the baby was still born at 30 weeks. She couldn't comprehend that her baby had been born, and wasn't alive - she kept asking for ultrasounds to check on the baby. Once she was released from hospital, she crumbled and became dependent on her mum like an infant. She was told due to complications not to fall pregnant for at least 12 months. In her already fragile mental state, fell pregnant a couple of months later. When the baby was born (at almost full term, completely healthy), she wouldn't care for her and left it up to her mum.

    Now, had she not had a great family support network and medical professionals willing to help her, I can see how the baby in the drain could have been her baby. We don't know anything about the mother yet so she could so easily be someone with a mental disability, struggling with everyday life who can't possibly take another thing.

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