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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    My concern with this is it will lead to an increase in unnecessary abortions. If a woman drank heavily early in her pregnancy because she didn't know she was pregnant, and before the umbilical cord was developed so the baby is likely to be fine, but fears she'll go to jail may mean she'll abort. I see this as an obvious outcome and ironic given so many behind laws like these are also anti abortion.

    And what about parents who smoke around their kids and cause serious bronchial harm
    1). A law can be crafted requiring prosecutors to prove a woman knew she was pregnant past a certain point.
    2) if a woman is going abort because she drank when she was, for example 6 weeks pregnant, then that's just stupid. The woman would probably continue to make other stupid decisions .. No matter what you do you can't fully legislate against stupidity, so you shouldn't stress yourself trying. That being said I'm sure a well crafted updated warning on alcohol bottles could help safeguard against this (eg "drinking heavily past xx weeks of pregnancy is likely to cause xxx. Cal 1234466 for further information.")

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  3. #62
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    @VicPark as someone who has worked in law for over 20 years you have so much more confidence than me.

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasalhaironfire View Post
    No I am not suggesting pregnant women should lose control over their own bodies. What I am saying is that the unborn surely has a right to to be protected from being made to have foetal alcohol syndrome. If a woman knows she is pregnant but choose to drink heaps and smoke, then she is subjecting her future child to serious health problems. She is deliberately harming a baby, which, as you said, is illegal.

    Regarding alcohol affecting sperm quality, if alcohol-affected sperm actually has the potential to harm another person, then I am all for preventing fertile men from drinking.
    The problem here is that the baby isn't seen as a human with rights until birth. Personally I have issues with that, but it is what it is. That's the reason pg women can't be held legally accountable in oz.

    As to alcohol affecting sperm, it has shown to affect motility, numbers and morphology. That increases the risk of m/c and birth defects, still birth. It's a terrible subject but it's true. If you see an unborn child as a baby (as I do) then the loss of that baby bc their father drinks too much IS harming the child. And then there is the burden on the poor mother who loses her baby. So based on that men should be banned from drinking too.

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  7. #64
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    Despite the fact that 1 drink is different to 4, and that it's hard to police etc, all good points, but it should still be illegal. You're growing a human being, you don't own that human and he or she has rights. You're abusing those rights by using a substance that has proved to be harmful.

    There is however in the medical world no solid decision on how much alcohol is safe. They say no alcohol as opposed to 1 or 2 to cover themselves and because they know how easy it is to over indulge, I think more research on safe levels is necessary before setting laws.

  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
    Despite the fact that 1 drink is different to 4, and that it's hard to police etc, all good points, but it should still be illegal. You're growing a human being, you don't own that human and he or she has rights. You're abusing those rights by using a substance that has proved to be harmful.
    I do actually agree with this. My issue with by banning it is we are putting the alcoholic mother who is doing her child damage and the responsible mother who has a little glass of champers at a wedding in the same basket. They aren't.

    And where do we draw the line? Should we ban drinking for bfing mothers? We know alcohol goes through the milk. Yet a vast majority of forum users in the past have said having a few drinks while bfing is fine.

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  10. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I do actually agree with this. My issue with by banning it is we are putting the alcoholic mother who is doing her child damage and the responsible mother who has a little glass of champers at a wedding in the same basket. They aren't.

    And where do we draw the line? Should we ban drinking for bfing mothers? We know alcohol goes through the milk. Yet a vast majority of forum users in the past have said having a few drinks while bfing is fine.

    good points here. I just avoid it while bfeeding aswel I dono just feel better doing so but I know a sip isn't going to do anything, went to a fancy wedding on the weekend and it was all around me cocktails on arrival and looking and smelling sooo deliciously nice! I have put hubby on notice when I finish having babies and bfeeding he is to take me out and I am having cocktails mmmm can't wait!

  11. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    @VicPark as someone who has worked in law for over 20 years you have so much more confidence than me.
    I just have plenty of practise idiot proofing things...

  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I just have plenty of practise idiot proofing things...
    The majority of lawyers are not idiots. And we are the ones that get paid huge amounts of money to twist the law.

  13. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    The majority of lawyers are not idiots. And we are the ones that get paid huge amounts of money to twist the law.
    Wasn't talking about lawyers or anyone group in particular

  14. #70
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    But that's the problem. A law like the one you want would be manipulated and twisted by special interest groups to be potentially used against women. It's very dangerous.

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