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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Jewish people can either eat unprocessed food or pull their finger out and strengthen the kosher certification processes. Demand determines supply You can't blame the Muslim community because their food processes are more established... Ridiculous..
    This is just bizarre...

    There is no proof of the god of Abraham ~ the one god that Jews, Christians, and Muslims profess to follow [an edited version of] --- but there is a money making scheme to be had, and it all comes down to the best business practice??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    No Jews are complaining about kosher certification? They have done and will always do their own certification regardless of what is halal or not as it has absolutely nothing to do with their process so calm down
    I don't give a hoot about the specifics to be honest... (No offence!) was just trying to say how ridiculous the post that the increase in halal was unfair on the Jewish people (I am paraphrasing).

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I don't give a hoot about the specifics to be honest... (No offence!) was just trying to say how ridiculous the post that the increase in halal was unfair on the Jewish people (I am paraphrasing).
    I didn't say it was unfair, I said it was "not very inclusive", which it's not. Anyway, it turns out that it's not such a restriction for Jews.

    ETA: I have recently learned that Sikh's cannot eat halal meat. Apparently in the UK there are many schools that only serve halal meat at school (British schools provide lunches to students). There is an opposition to this from many levels including Sikhs.
    Last edited by Busy-Bee; 29-10-2014 at 16:37.

  4. #194
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    Something that keeps coming up in my mind is that no big company would agree to do a certification if it didn't end up making them money in the long run. So therefore it won't end up costing the consumer. People say they won't buy stuff if it is halal certified, as it will cost them more, but will it really....?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [Mod] pegasus View Post
    Something that keeps coming up in my mind is that no big company would agree to do a certification if it didn't end up making them money in the long run. So therefore it won't end up costing the consumer. People say they won't buy stuff if it is halal certified, as it will cost them more, but will it really....?

    Those are the people who seem to be running with the "arghhh - it's a tax" line.
    As if each jar of vegemite, or slab of beef has had a percentage added to the cost.

    Businesses have many over heads - rent or mortgage of property, electricity/gas/water, maintenance of machinery, wages, workers comp, and other insurances, etc etc -- and marketing costs (this is what the certification would fall under)
    To remain profitable, companies need to factor in all the above costs. Some have a healthy pool of profit that they don't need to pass some of the costs on to their customers in the form of product value, and others would be struggling (eg - the price of lamb is going up and up)

    So, it wouldn't be a sweeping 'no costs are passed on to the customer', nor would it be a sweeping 'all costs are passed on to the customer' -- it would depend on the individual company and what they were being charged for their halal certification.
    Halal Australia says they charge $110 for an initial consult, and then individual contracts are drawn up. Those contracts would vary hugely depending on the type of product being sold. I've heard that some companies have been talked into getting trucks and actual outlets 'certified' (but that is only a rumour and I honestly cannot be ar$ed looking into it) if people are getting WATER certified - it wouldn't surprise me if they are paying to get approval for the transportation of their product.

    When it comes down to it - many people I have spoken to (and there is obviously a few in atheist circles) have an objection to funding religion, even if the individual product doesn't carry a 'tax' - the company they are supporting by purchasing the product is still paying a fee to a religious group, allowing that religious group to build religious schools and places of worship (the profit isn't just to pay their employees to do their job as Mama Mirabelle suggests) and also giving strength to political movements.

    I guess it can go in the same basket as why some people boycott Gloria Jeans - they aren't getting charged extra for their coffee, but they know that the company uses profits to donate to anti-gay causes.

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  7. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Mod] pegasus View Post
    Something that keeps coming up in my mind is that no big company would agree to do a certification if it didn't end up making them money in the long run. So therefore it won't end up costing the consumer. People say they won't buy stuff if it is halal certified, as it will cost them more, but will it really....?
    No it won't - it's as simple as most companies finding out that their product , the way they've always made it, is technically halal ( or gluten free or vegan or low fat etc) so why not pay a few hundred bucks to get the sticker , there is a 2% Muslim population in Australia and a minute 0.03% Jewish one so people are actually kidding themselves if they believe those minorities are running our food industry! Your halal lamb cutlets are exactly the same price as your "normal" ones ( my BIL is a butcher ) and your mcdonalds halal certified cheeseburger from the Lakemba store is the same price as your Cronulla store so honestly if it worries people that much, go ahead and boycott those companies because in this country you are free to buy, eat, dress however you like, a right it seems that some people want to take away

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    the company they are supporting by purchasing the product is still paying a fee to a religious group, allowing that religious group to build religious schools and places of worship (the profit isn't just to pay their employees to do their job as Mama Mirabelle suggests) and also giving strength to political movements
    Where is your proof of this? Do you have access to the books of AFIC or one if the many other organizations that certify food to be able to say where their money comes from and goes to?

    I don't so I can't say for sure but what I do know for absolute sure is that the Mosque and religious school in our area was paid for solely by contributions from the Muslim community as well as us holding many fundraising events throughout the year in order to raise money. I know 3 other mosques in our area that were built the same way, many of them took years to be built because that's how long it took to raise the money. If it's an objection to Mosques, I can assure you that with or without the 'supposed funding from Halal certification' Muslims would continue to build Mosques.

    As you say it's like people's objection to Gloria Jeans, but I don't see anyone calling for Gloria Jeans to be shut down, the general attitude to Gloria Jeans seems to be if you don't agree with what they're doing don't buy their product. Same attitude should apply for companies getting Halal certified.

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  11. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I have recently learned that Sikh's cannot eat halal meat. Apparently in the UK there are many schools that only serve halal meat at school (British schools provide lunches to students). There is an opposition to this from many levels including Sikhs.
    This is interesting.

    I know some Sikh's are vegetarian but for those who aren't, I guess they may be limited with fast food (KFC, Nandos etc) and meat such as chicken. From what I've read, the issue for Sikh's isn't so much with the slaughter process, but with there being a religious ritual as part of the slaughter process.

    I think a PP said that nearly all chicken in Australia is Halal (meaning a prayer is said at the start of the day etc)?

    I don't have a problem with Halal meat, but can understand how it might be frustrating for Sikh's if they have no alternative options and have to go without (as in the case of the UK school lunches).
    Last edited by sky1; 30-10-2014 at 11:03.

  12. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    Where is your proof of this? Do you have access to the books of AFIC or one if the many other organizations that certify food to be able to say where their money comes from and goes to?

    I don't so I can't say for sure but what I do know for absolute sure is that the Mosque and religious school in our area was paid for solely by contributions from the Muslim community as well as us holding many fundraising events throughout the year in order to raise money. I know 3 other mosques in our area that were built the same way, many of them took years to be built because that's how long it took to raise the money. If it's an objection to Mosques, I can assure you that with or without the 'supposed funding from Halal certification' Muslims would continue to build Mosques.

    As you say it's like people's objection to Gloria Jeans, but I don't see anyone calling for Gloria Jeans to be shut down, the general attitude to Gloria Jeans seems to be if you don't agree with what they're doing don't buy their product. Same attitude should apply for companies getting Halal certified.
    You are speaking to me as if 'I' personally objet to building mosques.
    I didn't say that.

    I'm quite realistic, and understand that places of worship exist, have done for quite some time, and will continue to be built. My only objection is the tax exempt status(but that I another thread entirely)

    THis is from the AFIC website under "Halal Accreditation" though...

    Halal Accreditation

    The Australian Federation of Islamic Councils (AFIC) was set up in 1964 by the pioneering Muslims who had emigrated from various parts of the world to make Australia their home. After 48 years AFIC, now renamed MUSLIMS AUSTRALIA remains the peak national organization representing ISLAM and MUSLIMS with some 120 member societies and State Councils around Australia.



    Muslims Australia articulates the interests of the main****** Australian Muslims through various activities such as representing Islam and Muslims at national and international levels, providing a platform at the national and state levels in Australia for the ever-growing Muslim communities to unite together in a democratic, open and accountable manner to manage and conduct their affairs. Muslims Australia provides leadership in various programs including education, publications, social work, charity, provision of Imams and their salaries as well as assistance in Da’wah work, building of Mosques and other infra-structure for the member societies at the grassroots level.



    Muslims Australia is managed by an elected Executive Board responsible to an elected Federal Council (Shura) and the Congress of Member Societies and State Councils within the bounds of a registered constitution. The Executive Board is committed to the cohesion of a Muslim community of diverse ethnic groups and to advancing the cause of Islam in Australia. It publishes Muslims Australia magazine, pamphlets such as Halal Guide, Guide for the Care for Muslim Patients, booklets and other Islamic literature. At present it administers five large Islamic schools around Australia with two more to open in 2011, organizes and sponsors Islamic lectures, youth and student activities and support for women’s and reverts’ groups.

    I'm sightly confused by your defensive rejection of the idea, it makes sense for a religious body to be profitable so that is can further its cause.

    Islam has been doing this since it monitored the River Nile in Egypt. hundreds of years ago. Calculating how much water would flow, therefore how many crops would be successful, therefore how much they could tax the public, therefore how much profit they would have to invest in the religion - and the movement of furthering the religion.

    An just to be clear, I'm not screaming like a bogan that 'ahhh, we're all gonna be islamafied' or what ever the latest fearmongering catch cry is. It's simply a recognition of history.
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 30-10-2014 at 10:08.

  13. #200
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    And I disagree that the same reaction for Gloria Jean can be had - if there were specialised 'halal shops' that stocked only halal certified products, then you cold draw a similarity.

    People are objecting to more and more products that they have bought for years, now being stamped - some of them stamped INSIDE the label, so that the choice has been taken away from them prior to purchase (for example that Coon cheese drama)


 

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