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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    With regards to this particular issue of Halal certification, as a Muslim I do see the criticism of it as discriminatory. Kosher certification has existed in Australia for decades, no one seems to have a problem with it; it is essentially the same thing as Halal certification. When only one group is targeted and not the whole practice then it certainly does come off as discrimination.
    Coming from a Jewish family I agree but kosher is different to halal , some similarities. but I don't think you have the dairy/meat restrictions or shellfish? Muslims can eat kosher foods but Jews usually can't eat halal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    Coming from a Jewish family I agree but kosher is different to halal , some similarities. but I don't think you have the dairy/meat restrictions or shellfish? Muslims can eat kosher foods but Jews usually can't eat halal
    Yep that's correct, Kosher restrictions are more strict than Halal. Sorry, what I meant was the certification process is essentially the same i.e. a company pays an independent certification organization to verify that their food is suitable and in turn gains the right to display that label on their product.

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    I really don't understand why people have issues with halal or kosher etc. It's people's tradition and culture. I have a problem with people killing animals for fun' and not for food which I know is a sin to them anyway. Responses like how does that make us racist against a culture for having a problem with it. I just think but why do people think they can tell others why their tradition is wrong. I could only think of something being wrong like, child neglect, rape murder etc and as I mentioned killing animals for fun etc. Why I mention religion? As I have been directly told this! I was purchasing meat and heard Muslim terrorist she even buys her animals slaughtered too' I was with my children and in shock. I'm not even Muslim and relised geez how others must be racially abused

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mummy5ormore View Post
    I really don't understand why people have issues with halal or kosher etc. It's people's tradition and culture. I have a problem with people killing animals for fun' and not for food which I know is a sin to them anyway. Responses like how does that make us racist against a culture for having a problem with it. I just think but why do people think they can tell others why their tradition is wrong. I could only think of something being wrong like, child neglect, rape murder etc and as I mentioned killing animals for fun etc. Why I mention religion? As I have been directly told this! I was purchasing meat and heard Muslim terrorist she even buys her animals slaughtered too' I was with my children and in shock. I'm not even Muslim and relised geez how others must be racially abused
    I'm a bit confused about what the second half of your post means, but if you read through this thread a lot of people, including me, don't like transitional halal methods of slaughter as i believe it is cruel to the animal.

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  6. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    With regards to this particular issue of Halal certification, as a Muslim I do see the criticism of it as discriminatory. Kosher certification has existed in Australia for decades, no one seems to have a problem with it; it is essentially the same thing as Halal certification. When only one group is targeted and not the whole practice then it certainly does come off as discrimination.
    It would depend on the reason someone is boycotting halal and not kosher. If their grievances regarding halal food and/or halal certification process can be objectively verified and the grievances are not applicable to Kosher food and/or certification then I would argue that it's not racist. If a person is boycotting halal food and/or certification on the grounds of "'cos I don't like Muslims *grunts* " (or variations on that theme) then yep, I would agree that it is racist/bigoted. I wouldn't like to say for certain what the case is for halal boycotters. I suspect a blend of both sides.

    I've documented in this thread anything I've found whilst reading about this topic from reliable sources. I've found plenty of stuff from non-reliable sources or statements made without references but in the interest of keeping this a thread one where we can discuss and learn rather than speculate and throw mud, I have not and would not introduce dubious quality links.

    I do intend to investigate further, particularly how the boycotters perceive halal to kosher and will report back anything I find.


    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    Coming from a Jewish family I agree but kosher is different to halal , some similarities. but I don't think you have the dairy/meat restrictions or shellfish? Muslims can eat kosher foods but Jews usually can't eat halal
    Wow! I've learnt something new!! And I also found it on wikipedia as well
    For most Muslim sects, kosher is a subset of halal; accordingly, Muslims can generally eat kosher food, but Jews cannot eat all halal food.
    Does this include meat? If it's been blessed according to one religion then how does that work for the other religion?


    Quote Originally Posted by Mummy5ormore View Post
    I really don't understand why people have issues with halal or kosher etc. It's people's tradition and culture. I have a problem with people killing animals for fun' and not for food which I know is a sin to them anyway. Responses like how does that make us racist against a culture for having a problem with it.
    Just because it is a tradition or culture does not make it exempt from being critically challenged. By that measure we accept FGM is beyond criticism because it is a cultural/religious practice. Standard halal and kosher slaughter requires an animal to be conscious before it has its throat slit. According to the RSPCA a sheep can be conscious after the throat cut for 20 to 30 seconds and a cow for up to 2 minutes. (Most halal slaughter in Australia pre-stuns the animal though.) There are also other issues people have with halal such as:
    - certification costs passed on to all consumers
    - certification costs supporting an organisation (AFIC) that has made a submission to federal parliament the introduction of legal pluralism in Australia so Muslims can legally administer some elements of sharia law.
    - an allegation that the AFIC sends money overseas to support questionable Islamic organisations (this is heresay at the moment - no evidence found to support such allegation)
    - an allegation that manufacturers are bullied into halal certification in order to continue trading and required to pay high fees for the certification (limited evidence to support this claim at the moment).

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  8. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post

    Does this include meat? If it's been blessed according to one religion then how does that work for the other religion?

    ).
    Halal meat does not meat the requirements for Kosher. I don't know all of the reasons but one is that Kosher meat cannot be stunned preslaughter like Halal meat can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    Does this include meat? If it's been blessed according to one religion then how does that work for the other religion?
    Yes it applies to meat; the meat is not blessed, a prayer is said thanking God for providing the meat. Since Muslims believe in the same God as Jews and Christians, if a prayer is said by a Jew or Christian thanking God for the food it is then also permissible for us.

    Nowadays this only applies to Orthodox Jews though as Muslims believe that God has no partners and that Jesus was a Prophet, not the son of God. Since most Christians believe in the Trinity we can't eat food that they have thanked Jesus for as for us it is a Sin to pray to anyone other than God. Also some Jews who are not orthodox don't observe Kosher restrictions related to slaughtering and preparing their food these days so this ruling applies only for food prepared by Orthodox Jews.

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    [QUOTE=Busy-Bee;


    Does this include meat? If it's been blessed according to one religion then how does that work for the other religion?

    ).[/QUOTE]

    For meat to be kosher the butcher/slaughter man must be Jewish and of good faith whereas any one can kill halal meat as long as they do it according to their rules and Jews do not bless the animal before killing so halal meat is not kosher and therefore can't be eaten - plus from memory you can't eat the hind of the animal. ( no such thing as a kosher leg of lamb ) and the Muslim g-d is not the same as the Jewish one

    I'm pretty sure the Quran says something that Muslims can eat the food of the people of the book (Jews) and as kosher is a lot stricter so i assume that's why they can eat it

    There are only a few kosher abattoirs in Australia so kosher meat is more expensive and you don't see it around as much except in kosher butcher shops or selected supermarkets
    Last edited by Elijahs Mum; 24-10-2014 at 21:47.

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    Yes Elijah's Mum touched on a key point. Muslims believe that 'people of the book' I.e. Jews and Christians, worship the same God as us therefore we can eat their food and partake of other aspects of their religion assuming they adhere to their religion; however Jews and Christians do not believe this to be true so the practice is not reciprocal.

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    Wow, I didn't realise all of this stuff about kosher foods, it's very interesting...

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