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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by amyd View Post
    But it doesn't actually improve the welfare of animals. Just because we aren't sending our animals doesn't mean that these countries stop eating meat they just source it somewhere else and treat those animals the same. A lot of the time we can't just send meat instead of animals because they don't have refrigeration available. It's going to be a long slow process but I really hope we will see the end of it.
    It does improve the welfare of the animals not being exported.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by amyd View Post
    But it doesn't actually improve the welfare of animals. Just because we aren't sending our animals doesn't mean that these countries stop eating meat they just source it somewhere else and treat those animals the same. A lot of the time we can't just send meat instead of animals because they don't have refrigeration available. It's going to be a long slow process but I really hope we will see the end of it.
    Maybe it does improve the welfare though. Australia typically isn't cheap for anything, so I doubt they're importing Aus animals for the price. It's probably a greater quality meat. So if Australia stops live exports, they can't refrigerate already dead animals, then they have a shortage. Price goes up, demand drops. Then they source live exports from elsewhere but the quality isn't as good so still, less demand.

    I'm just guessing and don't have any evidence but to me, this makes sense!

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    @amyd It would improve the lives of the animals living in Australia. I understand they would still source the animals elsewhere. I'd just be a little bit happier if it wasn't Australia.

    And yep not everyone can pack up and leave. So do we just keep supporting inhumane industries because it's tough on some families? There are many examples of industries where the government has removed tariffs or protection and yep people have suffered but 10 years later the industry has recovered. Or it's unsustainable and it dies.
    But what happens to those people and those families in that ten years? I always know I shouldn't get into these discussions because this is my life and my friends lives and our kids and our community. I honestly get frustrated trying to have this discussion with people who don't farm or live regionally or rurally because it's like sometimes we exist on different universes. It's not just a job or a career. But anyway - too hard. I'm out. I'm not meaning to sound snarky or upset but I just begin to feel defensive and then I can't have a decent discourse with anyone. If you ever want to, Sonja, you and yours are welcome on our farm any time.

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  5. #134
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    N
    Quote Originally Posted by misskittyfantastico View Post
    But what happens to those people and those families in that ten years? I always know I shouldn't get into these discussions because this is my life and my friends lives and our kids and our community. I honestly get frustrated trying to have this discussion with people who don't farm or live regionally or rurally because it's like sometimes we exist on different universes. It's not just a job or a career. But anyway - too hard. I'm out. I'm not meaning to sound snarky or upset but I just begin to feel defensive and then I can't have a decent discourse with anyone. If you ever want to, Sonja, you and yours are welcome on our farm any time.
    We've had this debate many years ago and I do feel hesitant expressing views that directly impact on people who I care about. But they're my views. I was raised in North Qld and many of our friends growing up were farmers. My mother's heritage is dairy (which is why I will never ever buy Coles or woolworths branded milk).

    What happens to any family when car factories in Geelong closed? I don't know. I assume it's sh-tty and hard and horrible. But eventually it's not. It was sh-tty and hard and horrible when DH lost his career and we had no choice but to start all over again away from all our family in a different state. And we did it again 3 years ago when we moved to Perth with kids in tow.

    You know me I'll fight for the underdog until my fingers fall off my keyboard but in this case my heart lies with those thousands of terrified animals.

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  7. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    N

    We've had this debate many years ago and I do feel hesitant expressing views that directly impact on people who I care about. But they're my views. I was raised in North Qld and many of our friends growing up were farmers. My mother's heritage is dairy (which is why I will never ever buy Coles or woolworths branded milk).

    What happens to any family when car factories in Geelong closed? I don't know. I assume it's sh-tty and hard and horrible. But eventually it's not. It was sh-tty and hard and horrible when DH lost his career and we had no choice but to start all over again away from all our family in a different state. And we did it again 3 years ago when we moved to Perth with kids in tow.

    You know me I'll fight for the underdog until my fingers fall off my keyboard but in this case my heart lies with those thousands of terrified animals.
    I think you need to follow your heart based on your views and experiences. As do I.

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  9. #136
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    And I definitely want to come and see your farm and community. I know so little about WA.

  10. #137
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    Check out the first photo in the article

    http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/wester...-1227094836858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I understand the economics but really I am reaching the point in my life where I just think money doesn't justify cruelty. I understand the repercussions of banning it, but it might take a decade but people would recover. Find something else to do or do what they always did differently.
    Meanwhile those families have no work, no income etc. Those country towns would wither away. Unemployment is high in country towns already. For many of them it's more than just money, it's their identity, their inheritance and often their own blood/sweat/tears. They often suffer years of drought or bad crops to get a good year.

    I know VP made fun of the fact I said to leave the decision to those effected but I stand by it. I'm not going to make a decision that takes away another families livelihood in an instant.

    On an aside. Till all humans the world over are living in decent conditions I don't think we can argue that animals should. But that's my thought process. I'd rather work towards getting kids and families out of refugee camps than stopping live trade.



    wifey of hubby who is always away. mother of two girls who are always amusing.

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  13. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post

    On an aside. Till all humans the world over are living in decent conditions I don't think we can argue that animals should. But that's my thought process. I'd rather work towards getting kids and families out of refugee camps than stopping live trade.


    .
    I don't get this. Why not say until all Australians are living in decent conditions you shouldn't help asylum seekers/poor people overseas .

    If you have the power to stop a wrong, then you do it regardless of what the scoreboard says.

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  15. #140
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    So on the topic of Halal, I always thought it was just meat.

    How are products like noodles and vegemite Halal? Wouldnt they be anyway because they dont have meat? Just trying to wrap my head around it. Im learning a lot from this thread, about something I honestly havnt thought much about in the past.


 

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