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  1. #101
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    There are loads of people who think halal labelling funds terrorism.

    There a Facebook page called boycott halal in Australia with almost 19,000 likes and the comments are atrocious.

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    I don't find that example offensive at all, let's say that happened, and people questioned the Scientologists and said where is the money going? and they said it goes to the running costs of the certification process and organisation, pays wages etc, if they said that and people still didn't believe them and there was not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise then the only course of action left is to boycott and let it go, because if companies still agree to be certified and the Scientologist organisation still agrees to certify and the Scientologists are happy to buy the product, and many not Scientologists are also happy to keep buying it then the small minority that isn't happy about it just has to accept it and let it go. Some things are just out of our hands.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I'm really interested in the concept behind Halal. Why must the animal be alive and why must the throat be cut? What happens in Middle Eastern countries themselves? Do they stun the animal first?
    No stunning over there. That's one of the reasons live export is so unpopular. The throat is cut because if the blood stays in the meat it tastes gross. I'm not sure why they prefer no stunning though.

    Can I just say that despite this topic having the possibility to go really pear shaped it has been quite polite - and I'm learning heaps.

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  5. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    But if people are boycotting a product then they are not consumers of that product, so a company caters to those who are consuming the product instead.
    Boycotting is different to just not buying something. Boycotting is actively withdrawing yourself from the market until such time that a situation that you find objectionable is remedied.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    Muslims have no control over whether a company passes on the cost of certification, neither do Jews, Vegetarians etc. Complaining about it doesn't achieve anything, contact the company and tell them how you feel, if it's in their interests they'll stop certifying their products and if not well that's life.
    No one has suggested that Muslims have any control with how a company passes on the cost of certification. I just want to be crystal clear because threads such as this one can quickly turn to an almighty fiasco due to generalisations being made.

    To be fair to the group that seems to be leading the boycott they strongly suggest writing to manufacturers regarding this matter.

    I am vegetarian - I read the label to determine if a product is vegetarian. I wouldn't expect all consumers to pay extra for a product for a 'vegetarian certified' tick. It would be nice if the manufacturing companies can put their own statement on a product regarding it's vegetarian/vegan status though, that would save me having to remember to bring my glasses to the supermarket!

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  7. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I'm really interested in the concept behind Halal. Why must the animal be alive and why must the throat be cut? What happens in Middle Eastern countries themselves? Do they stun the animal first?
    The blood has to drain out as Muslims aren't allowed to consume blood.

  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I'm really interested in the concept behind Halal. Why must the animal be alive and why must the throat be cut? What happens in Middle Eastern countries themselves? Do they stun the animal first?
    For meat to be halal the animal has to be killed by a human so it can't be 'dead' before being slaughtered.

    I have no evidence to support me but I would assume that the reason the animal has to be alive is due to the origins of halal and kosher slaughter (which are very similar). Going back hundreds/thousands of years, if an animal was not 100% alive before it was slaughtered then there is every possibility that it was diseased and thus not suitable for human consumption. This would have then been codified when Judaism and Islam came to be as individual religions. Same thing could be said for shellfish with high instances of not suitable for humans. There was not the science available at the time so a supernatural explanation given.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    I don't find that example offensive at all, let's say that happened, and people questioned the Scientologists and said where is the money going? and they said it goes to the running costs of the certification process and organisation, pays wages etc, if they said that and people still didn't believe them and there was not a shred of evidence to prove otherwise then the only course of action left is to boycott and let it go, because if companies still agree to be certified and the Scientologist organisation still agrees to certify and the Scientologists are happy to buy the product, and many not Scientologists are also happy to keep buying it then the small minority that isn't happy about it just has to accept it and let it go. Some things are just out of our hands.
    It is the "etc" that people are concerned about.
    There is only so much inquiring one can do into a company has religious 'cover' to hide from investigation.
    Same applies to christian churches and the profits they make.


    There is a political push from the Islamic side of things - don't tell me there is not a 'shred of evidence' for either, as there is evidence world wide - not just in Australia.
    AFIC has pushed for a pluralistic legal system in Australia by requesting a 'moderate sharia'.
    Now questioning if the profits from halal certification is funding this movement is quite valid IMO.
    Questioning where the profits are going - after looking at the listed affiliates, is also valid.

    It is just as valid as people questioning the issues surrounding tax havens for companies like Apple and Google.

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  12. #108
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    Interesting, thanks. It would make sense about needing to be alive so they know it isn't off in hot countries. I admit I'm cringing at them not being stunned first those poor animals.

    As I have said in other threads, healthy questioning of religion is not racist or anti religion. If the AFIC has questionable practices/beliefs/etc they should be investigated like any business. While I wholeheartedly do not support anti Muslim rhetoric I also dislike that any valid discussion is labelled racist (which I don't get given Islam is not a race).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I am vegetarian - I read the label to determine if a product is vegetarian. I wouldn't expect all consumers to pay extra for a product for a 'vegetarian certified' tick. It would be nice if the manufacturing companies can put their own statement on a product regarding it's vegetarian/vegan status though, that would save me having to remember to bring my glasses to the supermarket!
    I understand this but eating Halal food goes to the very core of a Muslims religious beliefs and therefore a label from the manufacturer would not be sufficient as everyone could say they are Halal without any verification. It is the same for Orthodox Jews and the Kosher symbol.

    As a Muslim I'm not going to apologise for companies catering to me, I've lived in Australia for decades and it is only in the last 5 or so years that I've been able to finally buy meat and dairy products from the supermarket with minimal fuss, and I love it, it makes life so much easier and allows me to 'assimilate' by shopping at Woolies instead of shopping in my little cultural enclave. It seems as a Muslim you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Anyway I think I've contributed as much as I can to this thread so I'll leave but I'll say I don't give a second thought to where my money is going when I see a Vegan or Kosher symbols on my groceries, if the certification makes their life a little easier then I'm happy for them, at the end of the day we're all just people trying our best...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mama Mirabelle View Post
    I understand this but eating Halal food goes to the very core of a Muslims religious beliefs and therefore a label from the manufacturer would not be sufficient as everyone could say they are Halal without any verification. It is the same for Orthodox Jews and the Kosher symbol.

    As a Muslim I'm not going to apologise for companies catering to me, I've lived in Australia for decades and it is only in the last 5 or so years that I've been able to finally buy meat and dairy products from the supermarket with minimal fuss, and I love it, it makes life so much easier and allows me to 'assimilate' by shopping at Woolies instead of shopping in my little cultural enclave. It seems as a Muslim you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

    Anyway I think I've contributed as much as I can to this thread so I'll leave but I'll say I don't give a second thought to where my money is going when I see a Vegan or Kosher symbols on my groceries, if the certification makes their life a little easier then I'm happy for them, at the end of the day we're all just people trying our best...
    I wasn't talking so much about meat products - I get that you can't read the ingredients on a packet of meat to ascertain if it's halal I was thinking more about processed foods.

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