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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I think what's possibly being missed in this debate (and i haven't read everything so apologies if I've said something already pointed out) is that the nail polish was developed in response to a problem on American college campuses with rape of college students by college students. There have been a number of high profile cases on US campuses of drunk women being raped by other students, and victim blaming is extraordinarily high in those cases. I believe the guys behind this nail polish were largely focused on that.

    I agree victim blaming is appalling, telling women how they can and can't behave is appalling, restricting behaviour is appalling. But I'm going to be honest here when it comes to my girls I will be doing what I can do to protect them. But I'll also be raising my son to know that no means no and that sexual assault is wrong.
    The other thing being missed here is that this product has not been developed. It's an idea they are crowd funding to develop, and already the idea has flaws (in a technical sense in that it's unreliable and limited technology)
    A friend of mine is fairly well known in the US. She is a survivor of campus assault and an advocate for survivor rights. She was raped by a male she was friends with- as is so often the case, even with the college rapes so topical in the USA now.
    While no means in is still important- I will be teaching my kids about enthusiastic consent. Consent is not just avoiding a no and rape can still happen without a no- it's a paradigm shift towards actively seeking an enthusiastic yes, I'll post some links in a bit

  2. #32
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    Ok yep I am aware of all. Sorry I have kids crawling all over me so no ability to get into detail with my posts.

    Feel free to post for others but I have read a lot of this before. No means no is just short hand for me for a lot of subtle concepts. And by developed I wasn't meaning it exists.

    I am comfortable with how I'll raise my kids.

  3. #33
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    For others interested- about enthusiastic consent

    http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2013/0...astic-consent/

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I think what's possibly being missed in this debate (and i haven't read everything so apologies if I've said something already pointed out) is that the nail polish was developed in response to a problem on American college campuses with rape of college students by college students. There have been a number of high profile cases on US campuses of drunk women being raped by other students, and victim blaming is extraordinarily high in those cases. I believe the guys behind this nail polish were largely focused on that.

    I agree victim blaming is appalling, telling women how they can and can't behave is appalling, restricting behaviour is appalling. But I'm going to be honest here when it comes to my girls I will be doing what I can do to protect them. But I'll also be raising my son to know that no means no and that sexual assault is wrong.
    See framed in this American college campus context I just feel more strongly about my position. What has happened in these high profile cases (and to hundreds of other female students) is so appalling and shocking that I almost don't believe it. I have no words for how sick it makes me feel. It clarifies to me that we are doing something very very wrong. I truly believe that after these shocking crimes (and the response to them) every member of these college communities should be putting A LOT of thought, effort and time into finding ways to send a MUCH clearer message that it is not ok to rape. That the creators of this nail polish spent their time focused on just another thing women can or should be doing is absolutely part of the problem IMO. These female college and high school students have been told straight out that they are 100% responsible for the behavior of the men around them and this nail polish further drills home the point.

    I see that many posters disagree with me and that's cool. I do feel strongly about this tho and I won't back down from it.

    Just another thing that has been mentioned a bit- teaching your daughters to protect themselves. I do think it is fine to teach your sons and daughters whatever personal stratifies you like to keep them a tiny bit safer. Similarly we all behave in ways that we think lessens our chance of violent crime. Not drinking to excess, walking alone in unknown areas, taking care of out mate etc..... All this is fine if it's your personal decision. I think it can help but I also think it's wise to remember in the case of rape that you are much more likely to be the victim of someone known and trusted by you. BUT these are personal strategies and it is the public and community strategies that I take aim at. I feel that a louder and clearer community message is needed. Previous messages have apparently not been clear enough and I believe that's because they are clouded and muddied every time we have any focus on victim behavior at all. So yep I stand by thinking that the nail polish is a disgrace.
    X

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    Atropos  (30-08-2014)

  6. #35
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    I hadn't really realised the problem of rape on college campuses was so huge in the US. Intellectually I knew it's an issue but because it's America I hadn't really thought about it.

    But now I do it's probably similar to the issue of rape in the Australian Navy. These are cultural issues which have just been accepted for far too long.

    I fall short of thinking the nail polish is disgusting though as it seems to be well intentioned. I'm not sure it will see the light of day in reality though.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Sonja For This Useful Post:

    Atropos  (30-08-2014)


 

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