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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    Sorry. I realised I didn't tie it into my point and went to edit it but you got there first.

    Basically, potentially healthy people who are trying to escape a deadly disease are going to be killed (in this scenario) because something that could have been prevented or the outbreak not be as severe isn't due to non vaccination.

    Essentially, if a disease can kill and it can be prevented, people who choose not to are putting the rest of society in danger. I don't believe people should be allowed to make a concious decision to endanger other peoples lives when they haven't consulted those people and come to a decision as a whole.

    Hence drink driving laws, smoking in public places/with children in cars, etc etc. You are stopped from behaving in a way that puts others in danger.

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    I completely get where you are coming from...and I do re-evaluate my stance on this often. Your points make sense and I can see why people think the way they do on forced vacc. I just can't get my head around forcing people to have an injection against their will - it's over stepping the line of bodily autonomy for me at this point.

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  3. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmeleem View Post
    Pretty sure you are right you can get live and not but you knew what i meant
    Some vaccines are "live-attenuated", which means the viral particle has been modified so that it will not produce disease, but the molecule is similar enough that the body mounts an immune-response to the virus (the production of "memory cells" etc which are activated by the actual virus to destroy said virus).

    Other vaccines are just bits of protein that look very much like the real virus and, as above, "trick" the body into thinking it has come in contact with the virus, and triggers a protective immune response.

    A beautiful piece of immunology in action, in my opinion.

    And I have NEVER EVER got a "kick-back" from a company which manufactured vaccines. I did get given a pen once from a company which manufactured a cardiac drug...but I cannot remember which drug, so as a marketing tool it did not work.
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  5. #113
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    I don't think you should be able to force people to vaccinate (and I'm strongly pro-vax) however I do believe that they should be segregated away from those who are unable to vax for medical reasons. I don't think you should allow people who CHOOSE not to vax to send their children to school with potentially vulnerable children. I also think its disgusting that ANYONE who comes into contact professionally with people who are medically unable to vaccinate or are not yet fully protected (newborns etc) should have to vaccinate as part of the job description. If they don't want to they can find a different job.

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  7. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by sajimum View Post
    I completely get where you are coming from...and I do re-evaluate my stance on this often. Your points make sense and I can see why people think the way they do on forced vacc. I just can't get my head around forcing people to have an injection against their will - it's over stepping the line of bodily autonomy for me at this point.
    I think my issue with people claiming bodilly autonomy for this are putting themselves above society as a whole, without acknowleging that they are part of that society and therefor have a responsibility to protect it. Their individual selves are not more important or above humans as a whole/as a collective. It's why I find it so hard to apply bodilly autonomy to something that affects not just you but potentially a great many more people.

    And, believe it or not, I do believe in bodilly autonomy. But I believe each individual has an obligation to the rest of society to put the needs of the whole above theirs first. So yeah. I guess I see it as a seperate issue from bodilly autonomy but I do understand your point.

    ETA: Those who medically can't be vaccinated for whatever reason are part of the society to be protected. Just reread my post and it didn't sound quite right.

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    Last edited by Jennaisme; 21-08-2014 at 12:39.

  8. #115
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    This is when I'd like to hear from a non vaxxer. And I don't mean to have a pitch battle.

    I would genuinely like to know how a non vaxxer reacts to this sort of thing. It would scare the cr@p out of me.
    Last year there was an outbreak of measles at my boys school, 2 children had it. I was under the impression that in this instance my children would be excluded from school (this was what I was told on enrolment with a CO form). The school did send out a letter saying that there was an outbreak and I did speak to the school nurse asking if they needed to be excluded, understanding that their vaccination status might of been missed and she assured me that they wouldn't be excluded unless there was a child in the same class with measles. I still sent my children to school at the time.

    On the OP, I am surprised they announced that the children were not vaccinated, I would of thought that would be breaching privacy. When I worked in child care we were never allowed to tell parents who was or wasn't vaccinated, we only had to ensure that their vaccination status was up to date.

  9. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaDiDah View Post
    I don't think you should be able to force people to vaccinate (and I'm strongly pro-vax) however I do believe that they should be segregated away from those who are unable to vax for medical reasons. I don't think you should allow people who CHOOSE not to vax to send their children to school with potentially vulnerable children. I also think its disgusting that ANYONE who comes into contact professionally with people who are medically unable to vaccinate or are not yet fully protected (newborns etc) should have to vaccinate as part of the job description. If they don't want to they can find a different job.
    Yes well I agree with this absolutely...beautifully put.

    If you choose not to vaccinate your children, your "choice" should not be forced upon others.

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  11. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Last year there was an outbreak of measles at my boys school, 2 children had it. I was under the impression that in this instance my children would be excluded from school (this was what I was told on enrolment with a CO form). The school did send out a letter saying that there was an outbreak and I did speak to the school nurse asking if they needed to be excluded, understanding that their vaccination status might of been missed and she assured me that they wouldn't be excluded unless there was a child in the same class with measles. I still sent my children to school at the time.

    On the OP, I am surprised they announced that the children were not vaccinated, I would of thought that would be breaching privacy. When I worked in child care we were never allowed to tell parents who was or wasn't vaccinated, we only had to ensure that their vaccination status was up to date.
    Did they name the children at the Essendon school? If not, then there is no breach of privacy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaDiDah View Post
    I don't think you should be able to force people to vaccinate (and I'm strongly pro-vax) however I do believe that they should be segregated away from those who are unable to vax for medical reasons. I don't think you should allow people who CHOOSE not to vax to send their children to school with potentially vulnerable children. I also think its disgusting that ANYONE who comes into contact professionally with people who are medically unable to vaccinate or are not yet fully protected (newborns etc) should have to vaccinate as part of the job description. If they don't want to they can find a different job.
    I agree with you. A CO form should not be sufficient, instead it should be that if you choose not to vaccinate, you're accepting that this will exclude you from particular situations.

  13. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by J37 View Post
    Did they name the children at the Essendon school? If not, then there is no breach of privacy.

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    I don't know if they named them, I just thought it would of been but ok

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    You know I am a believer of bodily autonomy as rule. But what about the child. What about the child who is now so severely brain damaged he will never be able to live a normal life without care for the rest of his life because his parents *chose* for *him* not to be vaccinated. How is that respecting bodily autonomy. I am going to go out on a limb and say that if you asked, most kids would want to be protected from nasty diseases and illness, if they say the opposite - it means someone has been filling their heads with nonsense!

    Quote Originally Posted by OurLittleBlessing View Post
    My kids are vaxxed according to the schedule, but I am strongly against forced vaccination.

    I do not want to see us go down that path at all. As much as people may not like it, I don't agree with taking away other people's bodily autonomy.

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