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  1. #41
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdgirl View Post
    There's also no vaccination for Ebola either, correct?
    I'm inferring you're saying that although there is no ebola vaccine it can still be contained as an argument against vaccination? Apologies if I'm wrong.

    If you are implying this then a quick google search found this article which explains how ebola outbreaks are managed and (hopefully) contained:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-6

    Sudden and deadly though it is, ebola can be contained, for three reasons. The first is transmission: the virus is not airborne. It is transferred only through direct contact with someone who is visibly sick. "It's not that one person enters a bus, and half of the bus is infected," explains Dr Matthias Borchert of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Because the early symptoms of ebola resemble more common diseases, reported infections quickly grow. Following the recent outbreak, suspected cases were flagged in Ghana, Sierra Leone and Mali, before the patients later tested negative (a few results from Mali have not yet been returned). The second reason is preparation. The WHO, Médécins Sans Frontiers and ministries of health devote tremendous resources to building wards, isolating suspected patients and tracking their contacts. "Even basic precautions reduce the risk of transmission," says Barbara Knust of the Atlanta-based Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. Finally, ebola is treatable. Although no cure exists, the services available in an intensive care unit can help a patient beat the bug. -

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdgirl View Post
    No offence but I don't think the sanitation in the 40s/50s/60s was even that great, from how my mother tells me she grew up in an average australian home in that period.
    It seems that a lot of the disease comes down to sanitation.

    Does anyone actually change their mind about things from posts like this? I know I switched camps so to speak but I was never particularly passionate so was open to suggestion.
    If my family and myself have been living off some herd immunity, then thanks
    Im not injecting any of us with things I don't understand.
    I take 'sanitation' in these discussions as things like
    - access to clean water
    - access to be able to boil water if its not clean
    - not having sewerage or still water laying in the streets (adequate drainage, electricity for sewer processing
    - electricity for food transport, storage and processing

    that is why in times such as the Tsunami in Japan or in Indonesia thousands died from disease .. because living in tents with no water or electricity, with no sewerage means these diseases run rampant.

    That is what I take to mean by sanitation. Not just washing your hands after coughing ... but on a societal level.

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    If you're genuinely interested in the credibility of the points being made, there are some fantastic responses from well-informed people already out there.
    For example, that first Blaylock article? Take a look at these:
    http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/01/10/...aylock-part-1/
    http://skeptoid.com/blog/2014/01/17/...aylock-part-2/

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  7. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilkingMaid View Post
    See I find it funny that vaxxers go on about listening to medical professionals about vaccines, then when a site is posted who are ALL medical professionals, but against vaccines/mass vaccination, then suddenly their medical qualifications are not part of the picture.

    There really are two sides to the vaccine debate, and that is within the medical profession itself.
    They may be medical professionals but their entire home page was filled with anti vax this anti vax that... Not one bit of pro vax or non vax medical issues. At this point I concluded the web site was extremely biased and pushing an agenda, and hence chose not to read the articles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    I'm inferring you're saying that although there is no ebola vaccine it can still be contained as an argument against vaccination? Apologies if I'm wrong.

    If you are implying this then a quick google search found this article which explains how ebola outbreaks are managed and (hopefully) contained:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...ist-explains-6

    No I wouldn't be bothered arguing against vaccination. I'm not here to do that because people have made their choices on what to believe.
    Science is not infallible. The world is not black and white, grey areas exist with everything.
    we all can only choose to go with what sits right with us.

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    [QUOTE=Bluebirdgirl;7888888]What happened to the disease known as Black Death? Do some diseases just go away? Genuine question.

    There was an outbreak of Plague/Black Death /Yersinia pestis in china 10 days ago that put 30,000 people in quarantine. It pops up a lot in Asia, but also San Francisco where it is endemic in the local squirrel population. It is however, very easily treated with antibiotics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebirdgirl View Post
    Science is not infallible. The world is not black and white, grey areas exist with everything.
    we all can only choose to go with what sits right with us.
    You're right. Science is fallible. The difference between science faith (in anything...including in a particular organisation/gut feeling etc.) is that science openly embraces fallibility. This is why the scientific process produces such strong and practical outcomes.

    Any hypothesis; any procedure; any mechanism; any results can be rigorously assaulted. Anything found wanting in terms of evidence or argument can be discarded. Long-term, only the best explanations that we have hold up to that kind of scrutiny.

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    In Medical School (currently, and 15 years ago when I graduated), there is a very strong emphasis on Evidence-Based Medicine. We learnt to critically-appraise published clinical trials, and look for areas of possible bias or conflict.

    Medical professionals, scientists...are not sheep. Give us some credit.

    Sent from my GT-N7000B using The Bub Hub mobile app

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  15. #49
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    It's difficult to comment on opinion pieces like that OP as they are simply opinions and are filled with biased language, with little in the way of facts to back up those opinions....

    The fact is, since widespread vaccination commenced we have seen significant drops in the associated diseases in our communities! Measles, rubella, hepatitis, polio.... These were much more prevalent and after vaccinations commenced, dropped dramatically, so yes, that's actual proof in numbers. Happy to look up exact numbers and post if you like.

    A quick look found these number (USA):

    - Before 1985, Haemophilus Influenzae type b (Hib) caused serious infections in 20,000 children each year, including meningitis (12,000 cases) and pneumonia (7,500 cases).1 In 2002, there were 34 cases of Hib disease.


    - In the 1964-1965 epidemic, there were 12.5 million cases of rubella (German measles).2 Of the 20,000 infants born with congenital rubella syndrome, 11,600 were deaf, 3,580 were blind, and 1,800 were mentally retarded as a result of the infection.2 There were 9 cases of rubella in 2004 and only four cases of congenital rubella between 2001 and 2004.


    - Before 1963, more than 3 million cases of measles and 500 deaths from measles were reported each year.2 More than 90% of children had measles by age 15.2 In 2002, there were 44 cases of measles

    - In 1952, polio paralyzed more than 21,000 people.2 In 2002, there were no cases of polio in the United States.

    - In the early 1940s, there was an average of 175,000 cases of pertussis (whooping cough) per year, resulting in the deaths of 8,000 children annually.2 In 2002, 9,771 cases were reported.

    - In the 1920s, there were 100,000 to 200,000 cases of diphtheria each year and 13,000 people died from the disease.2 In 2002, there was only one case of diphtheria in the United States.
    Last edited by Ellewood; 11-08-2014 at 14:50.

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    Great question op, and well done for being brave enough to put it in the debate section.

    I’ll start by saying that any time I am in doubt about the reputability of the author of an article, I will google their name & see what comes up. I googled the first author, it seems he is a neurosurgeon (not an immunologist, therefore has no qualifications specifically in the area of vaccines), and he believes things such as vaccines cause autism – which has been been proven time and time again to be untrue. He also uses his ‘medical’ opinions to sell a supplement/ product called ‘Brain repair formula’. His career is now ‘opposing science-based medicine’. I found this info here http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

    So, based on what I’ve read about him, honestly, I would say that the article, being written by someone who’s career is based on opposing science based medicine, is not a medically reputable article. I haven’t looked at the second one yet.

    I know this is just a meme, not a scientific article, but it explains Herd Immunity and how it works to regular people like me and you. I think the problem with vaccinating and immunity is that so many people honestly just do not understand the science behind it, which is why we as a society are so easily led by misinformation and pseudoscience. Putting the information into words that your average joe can understand helps to spread the correct information.
    Hope it works –
    http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/communityImmunityGeneric.gif


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