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  1. #21
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    1. “An analysis in the Lancet showed how the Pneumococcal vaccine reduces only 4 cases of pneumonia per 1000 children. The cost for vaccinating 1000 children comes to $ 12,750. Treating the 4 cases of pneumonia in India using WHO protocol, would cost $ 1. The pneumococcus strains prevalent in India are nearly all sensitive to inexpensive antibiotics like penicillin. In the US which has been using the pneumococcal vaccine for some years now, there has been a strain shift – strains covered in the vaccine are being replaced by other strains. Ominously the new strains are more antibiotic resistant. Vaccine has simply made the problem of pneumococcal disease worse. Yet this vaccine is being pushed in Africa and Asia.…It is not about lives lost in poor countries – it is all about the cash register. These organizations and their sponsors have profit margins to protect. Ethics is not a major issue with them.”
      ??

  2. #22
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    no - I dont see that as fair comment.

    chicken pox in SOME children is not that serious - but in some its very serious ... and that can be prevented by a vaccine.

    It also means LESS chance of adults getting chicken pox as
    a) many retain their immunity
    b) adults are exposed to the chicken pox virus less because its less prevalent in the community.

    they are basically admitting that it works, just saying it costs too much. Yes, vaccinating that many children will indeed cost a bundle, but the benefit is not just 'herd immunity' - the benefit is that many children actually being vaccinated and therefore the statistical percentage who would have serious complications from chicken pox now not having that.

    (for the record - my DD was vaccinated for chicken pox, and recently had chicken pox. She developed approximately 20 spots, was not ill in any way .. and the spots lasted approximately 48 hrs before some developed into small blisters and the rest faded away. I ended up going to the doctor to confirm that it actually WAS chicken pox as it was so mild)

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  4. #23
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    To be honest think he's a quack, he is extremely biased and basic logic tells me herd immunity is reliant on vaccination (based on small pox etc.).
    If it were down to "natural immunity" vaccinations would be ineffectual and people would have stopped using them ages ago.

  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilkingMaid View Post
    “An analysis in the Lancet showed how the Pneumococcal vaccine reduces only 4 cases of pneumonia per 1000 children. The cost for vaccinating 1000 children comes to $ 12,750. Treating the 4 cases of pneumonia in India using WHO protocol, would cost $ 1. The pneumococcus strains prevalent in India are nearly all sensitive to inexpensive antibiotics like penicillin. In the US which has been using the pneumococcal vaccine for some years now, there has been a strain shift – strains covered in the vaccine are being replaced by other strains. Ominously the new strains are more antibiotic resistant. Vaccine has simply made the problem of pneumococcal disease worse. Yet this vaccine is being pushed in Africa and Asia.…It is not about lives lost in poor countries – it is all about the cash register. These organizations and their sponsors have profit margins to protect. Ethics is not a major issue with them.”
    I will agree with SOME of this.

    Certainly big pharmaceutical companies are in it for the $ (and they are big $ we are talking about) and not solely for the health of the community. They are big business and fairly ruthless ...

    But ... pneumococcal is pretty bad from what I understood. the chances of death or permanent disablement are pretty high - especially in areas like Africa and some parts of Asia where medical treatment isnt that good.

    Yes - in Australia, If you are lucky and catch it early, and are in otherwise good health, you are likely to recover ... but in many countries, if that is likely to result in say 3 deaths or permanent disabilities in every 1000 people. Thats a lot (my figures here are not researched, I plucked a number out of the air as my understanding of the consequences ... it may be significantly different but its a good example nonetheless)

    It is very hard to make a judgement on some of this stuff, as often the studies are sponsored by the very pharmaceutical industry which benefits from the vaccinations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilkingMaid View Post
    [COLOR=#333333][FONT=Lucida Grande]

    Fair comment, or not?[/I][/LIST]
    The problem with this line of argument is that they are ignoring the fact that lots of people can go through to teenage years and adulthood without contracting CP and not have the vax. The author is making out everyone will catch it as kids if you don't vax them, that isn't true. I was born in the 70's, when there was no varicella at all. I got CP at 15 and really needed to be hospitalised it was that bad.

    I would rather my kids 'possibly' need to redo their CP vax as adults than leave them the possibility of getting full blown CP as an adult.

    Just my risk assessment.

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    I found the two articles difficult to take seriously because they were both implying that we're all sheep

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  9. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Sorry I took one look at the URL and thought I don't trust it! Took a quick look at the home page and thought it's just like that whack job group in Australia that got forced to change their name.

    Good on you for starting a thread in the debate it section though
    See I find it funny that vaxxers go on about listening to medical professionals about vaccines, then when a site is posted who are ALL medical professionals, but against vaccines/mass vaccination, then suddenly their medical qualifications are not part of the picture.

    There really are two sides to the vaccine debate, and that is within the medical profession itself.

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    I found the two articles difficult to take seriously because they were both implying that we're all sheep
    haha yes I'm ignoring the sheep bits, trying to tease out stuff that can or cannot be looked into further...

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilkingMaid View Post


    1. ??
    Diseases naturally change with strains without human intervention. It's nature. Saying we sometimes become resistant isn't an argument against vaxxing imo.

    I admit I'm lacking in knowledge on this, but pneumoccal covers more than just pneumonia yes? it can be deadly.

    Finally I bawk at the whole formula-like conspiracy theories. Yes the companies make money. They are a business. R&D costs billions given the strains do change. Are they greedy? probably. Doesn't mean the vaxxes don't work or it is a case against it. Vaxxing may cost govts a fortune, but then it saves a fortune in hospital stays, people live longer, work longer and pay more tax.

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  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilkingMaid View Post
    See I find it funny that vaxxers go on about listening to medical professionals about vaccines, then when a site is posted who are ALL medical professionals, but against vaccines/mass vaccination, then suddenly their medical qualifications are not part of the picture.

    There really are two sides to the vaccine debate, and that is within the medical profession itself.
    I think though, that I look at the big picture. As with my example of climate change. The tiny proportion of studies against the idea it exists are also written by educated scientists in the area. Doesn't make their results correct.

    The vast majority of science says vaxxing works, herd immunity exists and the cause of outbreaks are non vaxxing families which make herd immunity drop. Given I'm not medically trained, I'm going to go with the vast majority than the questionable minority.

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