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  1. #51
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    It's a massive can of worms, I agree.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Best Things View Post
    Yes... A very large grey area. I have a feeling this is going to lead to some very tough new surrogacy changes in Thailand.
    I hope so. I really do.

    I struggle to condemn the Australian parents though. That doesn't mean i condemn the surrogate instead. Just that if they have made the decision to terminate one of their twins based on a genetic condition they didn't feel able to cope with and they have believed that the termination has happened only to discover that the pregnancy has continued, then I don't think they are monsters for not taking that baby with them.

    It would be the same as a woman who has an unsuccessful termination giving her child up for adoption after birth.

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  4. #53
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    This will increase regulation. Regulation can make things do hard but I can see why it might be needed.

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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    It raises a very interesting question though, doesn't it?

    Whose baby is it if she has breached the terms of the contract by not terminating when the parents have said they wanted the pregnancy terminated?
    Good point
    Last edited by Starfish30; 01-08-2014 at 19:24.

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    This could have happened but they are still horrible people in that they paid a woman living in poverty to use her body...
    I'm not that quick to judge. I never been in the position to be unable to have children of my own, and tried all avenues to the point I need to get a completely stranger in a foreign country to have a baby for me. I just heard this week about a friend who found out she can't conceive naturally and only have a very slim chance to get pregnant via IVF. I think that this could easily be someone like my friend, who always dreamed of being a mum.

    I understand where you are coming from, but life isn't really as black and white as you are painting. Perhaps the couple really believed that they were making a difference in someone's life by paying all that money. We don't know

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  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfish30 View Post
    I'm not that quick to judge. I never been in the position to be unable to have children of my own, and tried all avenues to the point I need to get a completely stranger in a foreign country to have a baby for me. I just heard this week about a friend who found out she can't conceive naturally and only have a very slim chance to get pregnant via IVF. I think that this could easily be someone like my friend, who always dreamed of being a mum.

    I understand where you are coming from, but life isn't really as black and white as you are painting. Perhaps the couple really believed that they were making a difference in someone's life by paying all that money. We don't know.
    I'm sorry if you felt I was presenting a black and white view. I was, in fact, trying to highlight just how grey this area can be. Especially if you throw in a surrogate who in all likelihood had very little understanding of what things she was binding herself to by signing the agreement.

    Edit: I see you didn't mean to quote me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I hope so. I really do.

    I struggle to condemn the Australian parents though. That doesn't mean i condemn the surrogate instead. Just that if they have made the decision to terminate one of their twins based on a genetic condition they didn't feel able to cope with and they have believed that the termination has happened only to discover that the pregnancy has continued, then I don't think they are monsters for not taking that baby with them.

    It would be the same as a woman who has an unsuccessful termination giving her child up for adoption after birth.
    I understand where you are coming from, I really do. I suppose I think they're such pigs because they could have brought the brother home to Australia and then placed him up for adoption. It's not that they chose not to raise him that enrages me, it's the fact they left him with his surrogate in a village somewhere in Thailand!

    He is an Australian boy, he could have been looked after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I'm sorry if you felt I was presenting a black and white view. I was, in fact, trying to highlight just how grey this area can be. Especially if you throw in a surrogate who in all likelihood had very little understanding of what things she was binding herself to by signing the agreement.

    Edit: I see you didn't mean to quote me!
    No, sorry!! The app is playing tricks on me! It was vicpark's quote
    Last edited by Starfish30; 01-08-2014 at 19:41.

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  13. #59
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    I don't understand the baby being six months old before he was abandoned? When you use a surrogate is it normal to wait that long before you can come home with your baby?

  14. #60
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    The difference between a man impregnating a woman and a surrogacy arrangement is that the former isn't (generally speaking) a contractual arrangement whereas the latter is.
    Legally speaking couples using overseas surrogates have no legal obligation to accept the child/children, just as it is in Australia. In Australia a surrogate would have to go to court to gain any child assistance from the intended parents and even than its not guaranteed to be granted.
    Quote Originally Posted by meredithgrey View Post
    Apparently the Indian contracts do legally enforce a termination if medically indicated. (Whether or not T21 is a medical indication for termination is of course up for debate and for a different thread).

    I find the whole surrogacy thing fraught with risks. What if the surrogate mother wants to smoke cigarettes, drink, use drugs, refuse medical intervention for the benefit of the baby (monitoring, medications, hospital admissions antenatally, induction, caesarean etc)???? How is an "ideal pregnancy" legally enforced?
    Surrogates in india generally live in hostels so there diet and recreational drug ect use is somewhat controlled. Surrogates in Australia are considered the parents so maintain rights just as any other pregnant woman does.

    I am very uncomfortable with using overseas surrogates, #1 because the reason behind it is usually financial hardship. Even the idea of commercial surrogacy in Australia makes me uncomfortable even though we have stricter guidelines, counseling, psychiatric evaluations (in most states). But...alturistic surrogates (in Australia) risk everything for nothing, we put our lives on hold, go through treatments we wouldnt usually go through and experience all the usual pregnancy symptoms as well as some of us havinv high risk pregnancies. We can't even accept a bunch of flowers without fear of having our parental orders turned down and being stuck as 'parents' to a child thats not ours in a genetic sense that we never wanted.

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