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  1. #11
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    It's highly unlikely (read: never) that I'll ever utilise maternity leave but I can absolutely understand why it's necessary and I'm happy that it's finally deemed important.

    I don't consider it welfare in any way, it's simply filling a gap that many employers won't or can't.
    It's unfair that low/no income people can have another baby without as much thought because they will be getting the assistance that they need, but people who rely on their wage to pay mortgages etc. simply cannot afford a pay decrease for the time needed to be at home with a baby.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    Nobody is saying that any baby is worth more. This is just propaganda that papers like the Herald Sun uses and then the masses cling onto it. Are we a communist country? Does every person get the same income? Does that mean that some people are "worth" more than others? No.

    It's about maintaining the financial status quo so women can take time off work. If they don't have enough income to pay their usual bills and buy food, they will have to return to work while baby is very young.

    It's just basis economics which unfortunately most people can't grasp. Far easier to say it's unfair without fully understanding why.

    I have posted links about the reasons why replacement wage is required (and why most OECD countries do it this way) but I suspect most don't read them.

    Not sure why anyone would think Australia is being "fair" by giving everyone a flat rate while other OECD countries do replacement wage. We are hardly global thought leaders in this area. We are laggers.
    .




    Firstly - I am in NO way guilty of reading the fictional prose perpetuated by the Murdoch Press owned Herald Sun *cold chill and nausea passes over me*

    Do I wish a PPL had been in force when I had my babies - HELL YES!! Am I wrapt it will be great for my kids when their kids come along - absolutely!

    But

    Whilst a PPL based on current income will help the higher income earner pay their current bills and maintain their current lifestyle it doesn't help the low income earners except maintain their week to week existence. If Abbott hadn't slashed so viciously the FTB etc and try introduce a medical co-payment then PPL based on income would prolly been seen as fair.

    Apart from the belief I do see PPL based on current income as favouring higher income earners, I am at a loss as to why he would introduce it at a time when he insists we are in such dire financial straits.

    Pretty much every policy he has introduced has negatively affected low income earners the hardest and this one policy favours higher income earners the most.

    My objection is more broad based than considering this one policy on its own. And even then I see it as unfairly favouring higher income earners.

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  5. #13
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    It does support woman on low-medium income too.

    If you are on 42k a year, you'd get $5k more.

    I understand that the timing is pretty poor but the policy has merits on its own and that is what In trying people to recognize.

  6. #14
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    @WorkingClassMum I didn't think you were the Murdoch press type hence why I mentioned I quoted you but my response wasn't aimed at you. I know that is a big insult!

    I think his PPL policy highlights once again that we have all been duped into thinking there is a budget crisis when there is not. I think the $7 co-payment is outrageous.

    PPL is going to be funded by big business though, not by cutting health or education. I don't know why people assume this. Trust me, even if they abolish PPL those cuts won't be altered. They won't go "oh we have saved millions here, let's undo that cut we made over there". It doesn't work like that.

    FWIW I think 6 months replacement wage is too big a leap for Australia and where we currently are socially and politically. Three months full wage, or 18 weeks minimum wage (whichever is greater) might be an easier sell to start with. And including superannuation is an absolute must.

    I heard something today about a proposal for 26 weeks minimum wage plus super? I don't think that's adequate but it's better than the current scheme so would still be a step forward.

    This is not about people wanting more money. It's simple economics! I know I am repeating myself here but I don't understand why people even refuse to try and understand this.

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  8. #15
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    Whatever scheme that comes in will replace existing schemes that individual work places have.

    I heard yesterday that Labor is going to support 26 weeks minimum wage plus super. This is actually less than my workplace entitlement maternity leave that currently exists and will be scrapped once the new scheme comes in.

    To be honest I am dirty about it, I don't earn minimum wage and I have a huge HECS debt that takes a good chunk of my wage every week that reflects that.

    I don't know what the answer is. The current scheme means some women are actually better off. i.e. they are getting more in PPL than what they would normally earn in wages I guess those women will be disadvantaged because they will be getting their replacement wage.

    I do agree that PPL is a workplace entitlement.

  9. #16
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    Completely agree with WCM. I support PPL. I don't support wealthy families making tens of thousands out of having a baby. It's not the govt's responsibility to maintain a huge mortgage it's the couple's. It should have been capped at 30k for 6 months. I think that is more than reasonable.

    There have been so many threads here in the past, castigating the BB, how people support the poorest getting 1000 for a baby bc the govt and society shouldn't be responsible, stand on your own two feet and either pay for your children or stop having them.... yet we are responsible for a couple earning 300k a year?

    Yes I'm aware of the PPL seeking to equalise what women lose when they take leave. But if that's the case, let's put up the BB and help the most disadvantaged when their babies are born. All I see here is a subculture now where the wealthiest get a fortune for having babies while the poorest struggle to get anything.

    The PPL threads get me twitchy as the people I usually agree with, I disagree with on this topic, no absolutely so offence meant girls. I just don't support PPL in Abbott's form. Couples on 300k a year have already earned hundreds of thousands more a year for years over the woman stacking shelves at Woolies. All this does it seek to lengthen the gap even more

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kw123 View Post
    @WorkingClassMumThis is not about people wanting more money. It's simple economics! I know I am repeating myself here but I don't understand why people even refuse to try and understand this.
    Because people who already feel underprivileged can't get past the notion that someone else is "getting more than me". Never mind that, as you point out, that money was never going to reach them anyway. Like Aesop's dog in the manger, if they can't have it, no one will.

    I don't usually post in these threads anymore, for reasons of frustration that you perhaps share. But I had to come in and pat you on the back! Great posts

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  13. #18
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    @delirium the poor don't just get the bb though. They also get parenting payment (if poor enough) and ftb. The low income workers get ppl. Their income won't change and in some cases they will end up financially better off than pre children.

  14. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I just don't support PPL in Abbott's form. Couples on 300k a year have already earned hundreds of thousands more a year for years over the woman stacking shelves at Woolies. All this does it seek to lengthen the gap even more
    But hold on... Take the public service, which already has maternity leave provisions in place. Under their model an entry-level employee would get far less than an SES employee, simply because maternity leave is paid at their current salary. Would you see this change, for the sake of shortening the gap? There would be an uproar, and rightly so!

    If PPL is a step towards eradicating employer-paid maternity leave and replacing it with government-funded leave, then all it's doing is emulating the system that's been in place in workplaces like the PS all along.

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    @NoteToSelf the new scheme is either replacement wage or weekly minimum wage whatever is greater.

    Also it won't replace the current employer PPL if they only extend the current government PPL.

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