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  1. #81
    ~Marigold~'s Avatar
    ~Marigold~ is offline You make me happy, when skies are grey
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    She promotes over rugging, to the point of being a SIDS risk from overheating.

    Studies show babies left to cry have high cortisol levels which can affect right up to adulthood with anxiety etc

    She openly says to allow littlies to soil and vomit themselves and to leave them as it's manipulative.

    A very famous study by John Bowlby shows small children who don't have their needs attended to become anxious and/or ambivalent towards their parents and even avoid them.
    Also, how is allowing bubs to vomit and soil themselves "controlled" crying? This is nothing like the CC methods I read about or used myself, which is another reason I don't like SOS being associated with or likened to CC.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Marigold~ View Post
    Ok, not sure of my post/s got lost in translation, so I'll clarify and then bow out.
    I asked early on in this thread what Save Our Sleep was, exactly. I genuinely had no idea, but was curious as to why it was so controversial- I knew very little about it until this thread. No one really replied to my post so I googled and read a little bit of her website, ie; the introduction bit to get the gist of it and the part where she claims it's nothing like controlled crying- coming from the author herself I figured it was as she explained it, not to be confused with CC.
    Anyway, I was/am in no way "angry" in saying it's not like CC, was just quoting what I read on the website which I discovered was the opposite of what another poster was saying.
    I did something very similar to CC with DD, but certainly was never advised to let her cry and go off to make a cup of tea
    I went in to comfort her, played white noise, cuddled her to sleep half the time and Co slept for almost a year... the reason I say what I did was similar to CC was that for 1 or 2 nights I let her shook.for a couple of minutes, self settle etc which worked wonders- none of this "no comforting".stuff I read on the SOS website. CC doesn't rule out comforting, you're just recommended to leave them to settle themselves before going in to soothe them. As far as I can gather, the SOS method I'd much stricter and shouldn't be confused with CC.



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    Saying people get angry was more a general comment as many get really defensive and angry. Threads start like this asking for people's opinions, many say that don't like SOS and why, then the fur flies with users of SOS getting really angry and calling others judgmental etc.

    As to what you say you did, that isn't CIO/CC imo. Putting a bub to bed who is having a grizzle bc they are tired and comforting by going in, tapping their bum etc and calming them I don't see as being harmful.

    But you are right - SOS is more CIO than CC and I think there's a difference. As you say CC you go in and out and you do comfort.

    Tizzie says it's not CIO and to know the difference between protest cries and genuine upset... but then tells parents that babies that are so worked up they vomit are manipulating their parents and to let them cry and change them later. Clearly a child crying that bad they vomit, is way beyond a protest cry - and that's why I say there is a heap of mixed messages and euphemisms.

    She wrote the book childless, but I read ironically she didn't use SOS on her kids....

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  4. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Marigold~ View Post
    Also, how is allowing bubs to vomit and soil themselves "controlled" crying? This is nothing like the CC methods I read about or used myself, which is another reason I don't like SOS being associated with or likened to CC.



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    Yep, agree there is most def a difference between CC and CIO. I'm not a huge fan of CC, but it can be done in a gentle, loving way.

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    I preferred a much simpler book called 12 Hours Sleep by 12 Weeks old but I took parts of SOS (eg the 7pm sleep bus and keeping baby warm at bedtime)

    I couldn't get DD to have good day sleeps but she slept 7pm-7am from 11 weeks

  6. #85
    ~Marigold~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Saying people get angry was more a general comment as many get really defensive and angry. Threads start like this asking for people's opinions, many say that don't like SOS and why, then the fur flies with users of SOS getting really angry and calling others judgmental etc.

    As to what you say you did, that isn't CIO/CC imo. Putting a bub to bed who is having a grizzle bc they are tired and comforting by going in, tapping their bum etc and calming them I don't see as being harmful.

    But you are right - SOS is more CIO than CC and I think there's a difference. As you say CC you go in and out and you do comfort.

    Tizzie says it's not CIO and to know the difference between protest cries and genuine upset... but then tells parents that babies that are so worked up they vomit are manipulating their parents and to let them cry and change them later. Clearly a child crying that bad they vomit, is way beyond a protest cry - and that's why I say there is a heap of mixed messages and euphemisms.

    She wrote the book childless, but I read ironically she didn't use SOS on her kids....
    You're right, I guess I used CC as a guide and tweaked it to suit my baby.


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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    Or they're complaining that their baby hardly sleeps and they're exhausted
    I would rather run on limited to no sleep that use SOS on my kids.

    Dh's cousin use SOS on their kids. It's bloody painful. Whenever we visit them interstate we HAVE to go in their baby's awake time. Nevermind any other childs needs. Thankfully my two are easy going. They were shocked that dh and I have a social life as we often take our kids out to functions, weddings etc. Forget putting that routine on the kids! I certainly don't want to do the exact same thing every day!

    wifey of hubby who is always away. mother of two girls who are always amusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    I would rather run on limited to no sleep that use SOS on my kids.

    Dh's cousin use SOS on their kids. It's bloody painful. Whenever we visit them interstate we HAVE to go in their baby's awake time. Nevermind any other childs needs. Thankfully my two are easy going. They were shocked that dh and I have a social life as we often take our kids out to functions, weddings etc. Forget putting that routine on the kids! I certainly don't want to do the exact same thing every day!

    wifey of hubby who is always away. mother of two girls who are always amusing.
    I have never worked my day around their sleep times, except for when I make appointments as it's much easier when they're awake. In fact, we didn't get home til midnight last night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    Or they're complaining that their baby hardly sleeps and they're exhausted
    I'm going to extend on this.

    I hear all too often that mums are struggling with the limited sleep and that their babies will only sleep on them. I was like that with dd2 until I got her into a routine.
    As soon as I suggest getting bub into a routine, out come the comments about how it's not natural, babies need to be cuddled to sleep etc. If it's leaving you really exhausted, how is that good?

    What's so wrong with helping my baby to know what comes next? What's so wrong with showing her that she can go off to sleep and I'm there if she needs me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    I'm going to extend on this.

    I hear all too often that mums are struggling with the limited sleep and that their babies will only sleep on them. I was like that with dd2 until I got her into a routine.
    As soon as I suggest getting bub into a routine, out come the comments about how it's not natural, babies need to be cuddled to sleep etc. If it's leaving you really exhausted, how is that good?

    What's so wrong with helping my baby to know what comes next? What's so wrong with showing her that she can go off to sleep and I'm there if she needs me?
    Just speaking for me, it's not wanting a routine (both my kids had one but they set it not me) that I think causes the cafuffle when it comes to SOS is *how* it's done.

    Putting a child to bed when they are clearly tired and comforting them while they are in bed/the cot and coming straight back in when they don't settle imo is fine. It's extended periods where they child is really distressed that upsets people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    I'm going to extend on this.

    I hear all too often that mums are struggling with the limited sleep and that their babies will only sleep on them. I was like that with dd2 until I got her into a routine.
    As soon as I suggest getting bub into a routine, out come the comments about how it's not natural, babies need to be cuddled to sleep etc. If it's leaving you really exhausted, how is that good?

    What's so wrong with helping my baby to know what comes next? What's so wrong with showing her that she can go off to sleep and I'm there if she needs me?
    Nothing at all? My babies also developed their own routine that I followed. My problem was when I was trying desperately to install a TH routine on my first born when really, I should've just listened to her.

    I know loads of people love the book - I think it's pretty much crap but that's cool. Horses for courses and all that!

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