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  1. #331
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    @mrsharvey I couldn't read your post and not respond. I spend many hours every night feeding and rocking my near 9 month old to sleep. Every single night. when DS was this age he woke hourly for a few weeks. But DD2 was still my worst sleeper. Between 6 and 18 months she was awake almost every night for 2 hours anywhere between midnight and 4 am. As she got older she began sleep walking and had night terrors. It wasn't until she was well over 4 that she slept through regularly. Turns out she has an anxiety condition which is why she was such a cr@p sleeper.

    And with her I tried to follow SOS to the letter. But Tizzie wasn't sitting with me in her bedroom comforting me night after night while DD2 screamed and cried. She wasn't there when I was fantasising about driving my car into a tram one day because at least it meant I would get some sleep. No at the end of the day we are pretty much alone with our babies and our books. We don't live in a village anymore. I wish I could come over and hold your son for you for a few hours at night so you could sleep. I know @btmac is doing it tough too at the moment. I feel for you both because you are in this on your own.

    My biggest criticism of all of these books (contented baby is another) is the language they use is very powerful. It's all about what babies or parents "should" be doing. I have grown to hate that word more than any other as the opposite of should is failure.

    I hate people asking me if my baby still wakes at night. I feel I have to justify why it's ok for me while people look stunned that I run on so little sleep and yet still care for other children.

    Our kids don't need fixing, they are happy and well rested. They are wonderful and so are you.

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  3. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Quick snap poll: all the ladies on this thread:
    A) do you follow SOS
    B) how old are your kids and do they sleep through?

    Me:

    Yes I follow SOS. I use my common sense though I never follow anything else 100%.

    Ds1: 2.5 slept through (7-7) from 12 weeks
    Ds2: 8 weeks still hit and miss (last 3 nights twice slept from 8ish-6:30am with a dream feed, last night woke at 4;30am)
    A- no, not with either child
    B- my 11 year old sleeps through and has since 6-8 weeks old. My 19 month old does not. Very different babies.

  4. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm confused. This is pretty much what SOS says. It describes how to identify a protest cry. It's not the books fault if people don't read this properly or still can't tell what a protest cry is .
    Have you read safe sleep space? Because I have read both books. I guarantee SSS is far less ambiguous than SOS. I seriously don't understand why you're so evangelical about SOS.

  5. #334
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    No I didn't use SOS with either.

    DD slept through at 6 weeks, DS at 8.

  6. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    Yes I agree with what you're saying. That's why it's important to find a solution that sits well with you but also works towards fixing the situation resulting in happiness for both mum and bub not just baby. In saying that, sometimes a bit of tough love is needed and it was the hardest week of my life at sleep school but the end result has far outweighed those awful few days.
    I wonder is an underlying difference that some parents are Ok with a little bit of short term pain for long term gain? While others don't want to see their child go through any short term discomfort whatsoever?

    I know I would go nuts if I had to pat/rock/feed my bub to sleep for every feed long term and I don't cope very well with sleep depravation/disruption. To me, it's acceptable to go through a little discomfort in order to have a good sleeper, because I know the alternative would send me nuts and I don't want to go there.

    **I acknowledge that sometimes there is nothing that can be done to 'fix' a bubs bad sleeping habits. And I feel for those mums going through sleep depravation and depression.

  7. #336
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    I guess it's how you see it though Vic.

    For many it's not short term discomfort. It's long term damage they are concerned about. i know you say yours only grizzles but that's not every SOS baby.

    I suppose it's also that some parents think that patting to sleep, cuddling is our job. That being a parent is about doing what is best for your child, not leaving them upset to suit yourself. I'm not saying that's how anyone that uses SOS is, just that maybe that's non SOS thinking. I'm not a martyr.... but I also acknowledge babies aren't there to fit around my lifestyle choices, they are... well... babies.. geared to need their mum.

    I know this is my own baggage here, but it saddens me, as someone that will probably never get another baby, that others see that small window of babyhood as an impediment to their precious sleep time.... and I know sleep dep is hell, I'm not minimising that.

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  9. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    Have you read safe sleep space? Because I have read both books. I guarantee SSS is far less ambiguous than SOS. I seriously don't understand why you're so evangelical about SOS.
    Evangelical There are flaws with the book and on other threads I've listed them (breastfeeding advice for one).

  10. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I guess it's how you see it though Vic.

    For many it's not short term discomfort. It's long term damage they are concerned about. i know you say yours only grizzles but that's not every SOS baby.

    I suppose it's also that some parents think that patting to sleep, cuddling is our job. That being a parent is about doing what is best for your child, not leaving them upset to suit yourself. I'm not saying that's how anyone that uses SOS is, just that maybe that's non SOS thinking. I'm not a martyr.... but I also acknowledge babies aren't there to fit around my lifestyle choices, they are... well... babies.. geared to need their mum.

    I know this is my own baggage here, but it saddens me, as someone that will probably never get another baby, that others see that small window of babyhood as an impediment to their precious sleep time.... and I know sleep dep is hell, I'm not minimising that.
    Good points. I know for me it's not babyhood as an impediment to my precious sleep time. It's more like I know if I am sleep deprived then I would not cope and then bub would be in a MUcH worse position....

  11. #339
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    Sure, I get that. Like I said, sleep dep is hell, I've been there. I suppose some of us argue there is more than 1 way to skin a cat. I think we all want the same thing - a happy baby and some sleep. But not using SOS doesn't mean we all have 5 year olds that still wake all night. DD in particular was a wonderful sleeper, still is, and slept through from 6 weeks. I think part of it was temperament (she's an easy kid) some of it was she felt safe, she knew she could fall asleep and I'd always be there. I didn't even rock her to sleep beyond 4 weeks maybe (my memory is a little hazy now). I would give her cuddles, pop her in her cot, and she would close her eyes and go to sleep.

    So my long winded point is that there are various ways to encourage sleep. Not using SOS doesn't mean you have a shocking sleeping, spoilt baby.

    I guess at the end of the day it's a case of never the twain will meet. I just could never bring myself to use it, and it works for you. We are polar opposites but ultimately want the best for our kids, we'll just never agree on sleep issues.. and that's fine

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    @Busy-Bee, just wanted to say that I am in awe of you! That would have been really, really tough going.

    I highly doubt that there is anything you could have done differently btw. Unless people have been through it, they really don't get it.

    My first slept through the night from about 8 weeks and I was so self righteous as I really believed that I had 'taught' her to do that. Well wadda ya know, around 8/9 months it all went to pot and she turned into a waking nightmare. Nothing I did over that time worked and I felt like I tried everything.

    Fast forward to 3.5 years old and she was diagnosed with coeliac disease. 2 weeks after not eating gluten and she was sleeping suddenly sleeping PERFECTLY.

    I guess that's why I don't like the tough love approach... how do you know there isn't something really wrong? I mean until DD was diagnosed, every Dr I mentioned it to said she was healthy.

    Generally speaking I think there is a reason if someone doesn't sleep well - baby, child or adult.

    Anyway, hats off to you busy-bee your daughter sounds like an amazing, confident, young girl. I think you can take some credit for that.

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