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  1. #311
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    - rule out medical issues Tick

    - introduce a comforter with mums smell on it. Use it at every sleep. Tick - she slept next to me, she was in my arms usually around the clock. I tried giving her a sweaty shirt and other similar items. She didn't want to know (it worked for DS by the way, I once put a very sweaty shirt next to him in the cot as he grizzled, he turned to it and promptly fell asleep.) She still woke every hour or two during the night until she was 2.

    - double check the temperature and bedding in bubs room. A gro-bag and thermostats controlled heater is the easiest (I've found). Tick - the temp was fine, she wasn't too cold or sweaty. Her sleeplessness also occurred over 2 years so we went through seasonal changes and it didn't affect her sleep.

    - up solids, in particular protein/meat before bed time. If you need to cut back in milk drinks a little then so be it. Tried, didn't work. Solids were introduced at 6 months. She didn't want to know. We tried BLW, veggies, crackers, fruit. We also tried purees and even jelly and giving her the spoon. NO interest. She didn't have an interest in food until about 8 months old. There's not much you can do if they turn their head away and shut their mouth tight.

    - once the above is done slowly wean off the night bottle (cut back the amount a bit each night) Not applicable, DD was breastfed until 18 months old and didn't take bottles. She was fed on demand. She was also a tiny baby and not growing much so I would be reluctant to restrict any intake of nutrients. At 3 years old she only weighs 12 kg.

    - get rid of negative sleep aids (dummy, patting/rocking to sleep etc). With an older child you might want to try a slow wean. Not really applicable - she had a dummy but would spit it out during the night if she wanted a feed. She never took to being rocked or patting. It was boob or nothing. Babies also spend their first 9 months of their lives being rocked to sleep - it's a very soothing and calming activity. I often fall asleep in the car when DF is driving.

    - move bub to a room that is furthest away from noise. Even if it's the study. There was no noise, we live in a very quiet area and rarely have TVs or similar on. She would only sleep if she was next to me or had some physical contact with me. I noticed this about her when she was less than 24 hours old when I put my hand on her head and she appeared a lot less fussy.

    - get blockout blinds.
    Why would block out blinds work at night? Her room already had block out blinds, she just refused to sleep in her cot.

    - treat all night wakings as night time (no noise, low lights, no talking) Tick - we did.

    - don't go to bub at the first grizzle. Sometimes bub might grizzle in their sleep and going in actually wakes them up I tried that but the first grizzle would, 99/100 turn into a howling cry very quickly, regardless of circumstances.

    - slowly introduce bub to different people (family members, playgroup etc) She got plenty of interaction with friends and family, no issues about that. She just insisted on sleeping with me or at the very least, being 'walked' around the house with DF.

    - be prepared for new changes to take a week or so to start working: don't give up right away. I spent the first 2 years of her life going through hell. I ended up seeing a psych because I wasn't coping. I pushed people away because 'no one understood', they all had their cosy lives and couldn't help and didn't get it. I wanted to reach through the screen and smash people's head against the keyboard when they complained their 6 month old wasn't sleeping through the night or taking an hour for a feed (DD was also a perma feeder and would feed pretty much 24/7 for the first 3 to 4 months of her life). I also had a 3-4 year old who didn't talk and was living in his own little world and was possibly ASD. I was a BH mod at the time and quit partially because I couldn't string a rational sentence together and resented everyone and anyone who has a *cough* "normal" baby.

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  3. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsharvey View Post
    Do you know what VP? I've ticked all your boxes. I've said SOS is simply not for me. I've read the book - more than once in fact. I've advised OP to read it and see how she feels. I haven't used 'overly emotive' words that hinder discussion. My only comments have been that it is not based on any empirical scientific fact and a general wondering about why the book is so open to being misinterpreted. Which is a fair question.

    You have stated that it is most likely my fault (or someone like me) that my 18 month old is a terrible sleeper, but I'm unlikely to acknowledge that as I wouldn't generally be the self-reflective type. Now you're telling me that my child is not normal. So which is it - me as a sh!thouse parent or my poor abnormal kid?

    I have been on the verge of serious mental breakdown because of my son's sleep. Repeatedly. I'm there again. I thought of you last night at midnight when my screaming, teething son was doing my head in. I hated myself for not being 'strong' enough for trying SOS. I have spent 18 months reflecting on all of my failures as a parent. I am not 'an idiot' that doesn't know how to read a book. If I did try SOS and it doesn't work for my son, that's just the way it is. I wouldn't blame the book, as it clearly works for some people. Nor would I blame my son. It just isn't a match.

    I crave structure and routine in my personal life, and throwing that out of the window for my child is one of the hardest things I've ever done, and a massive sacrifice. Yes, it's my choice. I haven't once put you down for yours. I work extremely hard to say things in a diplomatic way.

    And yes, I'm genuinely glad for you that you don't go through what I go through. Just be careful what you say, because your words can be just as damaging as anyone else's here. Don't bring normal into it please.
    You are NOT a sh!thouse mother.
    Your son is NOT abnormal.

    You are a wonderful caring mum who is putting the mental and emotional welfare of your son first.

    That makes you awesome.

    wifey of hubby who is always away. mother of two girls who are always amusing.

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  5. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    - rule out medical issues Tick

    - introduce a comforter with mums smell on it. Use it at every sleep. Tick - she slept next to me, she was in my arms usually around the clock. I tried giving her a sweaty shirt and other similar items. She didn't want to know (it worked for DS by the way, I once put a very sweaty shirt next to him in the cot as he grizzled, he turned to it and promptly fell asleep.) She still woke every hour or two during the night until she was 2.

    - double check the temperature and bedding in bubs room. A gro-bag and thermostats controlled heater is the easiest (I've found). Tick - the temp was fine, she wasn't too cold or sweaty. Her sleeplessness also occurred over 2 years so we went through seasonal changes and it didn't affect her sleep.

    - up solids, in particular protein/meat before bed time. If you need to cut back in milk drinks a little then so be it. Tried, didn't work. Solids were introduced at 6 months. She didn't want to know. We tried BLW, veggies, crackers, fruit. We also tried purees and even jelly and giving her the spoon. NO interest. She didn't have an interest in food until about 8 months old. There's not much you can do if they turn their head away and shut their mouth tight.

    - once the above is done slowly wean off the night bottle (cut back the amount a bit each night) Not applicable, DD was breastfed until 18 months old and didn't take bottles. She was fed on demand. She was also a tiny baby and not growing much so I would be reluctant to restrict any intake of nutrients. At 3 years old she only weighs 12 kg.

    - get rid of negative sleep aids (dummy, patting/rocking to sleep etc). With an older child you might want to try a slow wean. Not really applicable - she had a dummy but would spit it out during the night if she wanted a feed. She never took to being rocked or patting. It was boob or nothing. Babies also spend their first 9 months of their lives being rocked to sleep - it's a very soothing and calming activity. I often fall asleep in the car when DF is driving.

    - move bub to a room that is furthest away from noise. Even if it's the study. There was no noise, we live in a very quiet area and rarely have TVs or similar on. She would only sleep if she was next to me or had some physical contact with me. I noticed this about her when she was less than 24 hours old when I put my hand on her head and she appeared a lot less fussy.

    - get blockout blinds.
    Why would block out blinds work at night? Her room already had block out blinds, she just refused to sleep in her cot.

    - treat all night wakings as night time (no noise, low lights, no talking) Tick - we did.

    - don't go to bub at the first grizzle. Sometimes bub might grizzle in their sleep and going in actually wakes them up I tried that but the first grizzle would, 99/100 turn into a howling cry very quickly, regardless of circumstances.

    - slowly introduce bub to different people (family members, playgroup etc) She got plenty of interaction with friends and family, no issues about that. She just insisted on sleeping with me or at the very least, being 'walked' around the house with DF.

    - be prepared for new changes to take a week or so to start working: don't give up right away. I spent the first 2 years of her life going through hell. I ended up seeing a psych because I wasn't coping. I pushed people away because 'no one understood', they all had their cosy lives and couldn't help and didn't get it. I wanted to reach through the screen and smash people's head against the keyboard when they complained their 6 month old wasn't sleeping through the night or taking an hour for a feed (DD was also a perma feeder and would feed pretty much 24/7 for the first 3 to 4 months of her life). I also had a 3-4 year old who didn't talk and was living in his own little world and was possibly ASD. I was a BH mod at the time and quit partially because I couldn't string a rational sentence together and resented everyone and anyone who has a *cough* "normal" baby.
    This sounds like my DS and by the time I got to sleep school at 16 months, I was a mess. Sometimes babies/children need tough love because sleep is beneficial to their development. I night weaned at sleep school which not only stopped him waking for feeds through the night, but as a result of not feeding all night he was hungry through the day because he wasn't eating all night! I have to agree that once a baby is on solids properly then they should not need to be waking for feeds through the night or if you're finding they're not eating well through the day then it's similar to my situation where they are not eating because they've been feeding all night.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rose&Aurelia View Post
    You are NOT a sh!thouse mother.
    Your son is NOT abnormal.

    You are a wonderful caring mum who is putting the mental and emotional welfare of your son first.

    That makes you awesome.

    wifey of hubby who is always away. mother of two girls who are always amusing.
    At what cost though? No mother should be putting their child's emotional and mental welfare above their own if the mother is suffering severely because of it! Sorry I've been there and never again will I allow myself to be a martyr at the expense of my own needs. I may be a mother but I'm still a person too.

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  9. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsharvey View Post
    Do you know what VP? I've ticked all your boxes. I've said SOS is simply not for me. I've read the book - more than once in fact. I've advised OP to read it and see how she feels. I haven't used 'overly emotive' words that hinder discussion. My only comments have been that it is not based on any empirical scientific fact and a general wondering about why the book is so open to being misinterpreted. Which is a fair question.

    You have stated that it is most likely my fault (or someone like me) that my 18 month old is a terrible sleeper, but I'm unlikely to acknowledge that as I wouldn't generally be the self-reflective type. Now you're telling me that my child is not normal. So which is it - me as a sh!thouse parent or my poor abnormal kid?

    I have been on the verge of serious mental breakdown because of my son's sleep. Repeatedly. I'm there again. I thought of you last night at midnight when my screaming, teething son was doing my head in. I hated myself for not being 'strong' enough for trying SOS. I have spent 18 months reflecting on all of my failures as a parent. I am not 'an idiot' that doesn't know how to read a book. If I did try SOS and it doesn't work for my son, that's just the way it is. I wouldn't blame the book, as it clearly works for some people. Nor would I blame my son. It just isn't a match.

    I crave structure and routine in my personal life, and throwing that out of the window for my child is one of the hardest things I've ever done, and a massive sacrifice. Yes, it's my choice. I haven't once put you down for yours. I work extremely hard to say things in a diplomatic way.

    And yes, I'm genuinely glad for you that you don't go through what I go through. Just be careful what you say, because your words can be just as damaging as anyone else's here. Don't bring normal into it please.
    You've had a rough night so I will try and be diplomatic. Please don't take what I've said so personally. It's ok that SOS isn't for you. Good onyou for reading the book before saying it's not your style. And well done for not using emotive words.

    I haven't called anyone a ****house parent: heck I stuff up and definitley don't have all the answers. And I have never said that having a child with abnormal habits means that child is any less worthy or Loveable. I am sorry you are having a rough trot and your emotions are getting to you.

    As for your 18 month old. Sorry you're having a rough time. I have no idea what your child's sleep habits are like, not the routines and habits he has been exposed to. I haven't told you that your child isn't normal. I've said that an 11 month old waking every 2 hours isn't normal. And in the absence of medical issues an older bub like this not sleeping through can mostly be attributed to habits and routines adopted by the parents. Sorry if that hurts but I stand by that.
    Last edited by VicPark; 23-04-2014 at 11:24.

  10. #316
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    I weaned completely (day and night) at 18 months (slowly, over about a month) and it didn't make the slightest bit of difference to her sleeping.

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    Part of me accepting DS sleep was understanding the cycles of a sleep regression. Sleep training is useless with a bub that hits every sleep regression. The best sleep advice is on askmoxie - saved my sanity

  13. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlipFlop View Post
    At what cost though? No mother should be putting their child's emotional and mental welfare above their own if the mother is suffering severely because of it! Sorry I've been there and never again will I allow myself to be a martyr at the expense of my own needs. I may be a mother but I'm still a person too.
    No one is expecting anyone to be a martyr. Sometimes, however, there is no alternative. I honestly don't know what the alternative would have been in my situation, let my infant howl until she vomits and then some or tend to her needs as best I could and help her either get back to sleep or what ever else she needed at that particular time. The way I coped (if you could call it that) was bedshare, learn to feed lying down (thus getting optimal sleep for myself in that situation) and have an extraordinarily supportive DF who didn't mind giving up his bed for 2 years. I also took time out for myself when possible which included a daily trip to the gym where I could have one hour of child free time!!

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    If my next baby is an appalling sleeper at least now I have a list of amazing parents who will sort her out for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Busy-Bee View Post
    No one is expecting anyone to be a martyr. Sometimes, however, there is no alternative. I honestly don't know what the alternative would have been in my situation, let my infant howl until she vomits and then some or tend to her needs as best I could and help her either get back to sleep or what ever else she needed at that particular time. The way I coped (if you could call it that) was bedshare, learn to feed lying down (thus getting optimal sleep for myself in that situation) and have an extraordinarily supportive DF who didn't mind giving up his bed for 2 years. I also took time out for myself when possible which included a daily trip to the gym where I could have one hour of child free time!!
    I think though of you have to do things you don't want to do then yes it is likened to being a martyr. In my case, bed sharing and sleeping with my boobs out so he could have an all night buffet as well as being woken 8-10 times a night whenever he latched on were all things that I wasn't happy about and only did so he was happy. But you know what? Once I went to sleep school and he got over the first few nights of not being fed constantly and being in my bed, he was even happier because he was getting a full nights sleep. This is why I will never put my child's need before my own again if it means I'm sacrificing my happiness in the process.

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