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  1. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    With respect.... it is most certainly CC. She tells parents to leave their baby cry and have a cup of tea I'm trying to be respectful to parents that use SOS, but the mere fact users are quick to get angry and say it's not CC (when imo it def is) says deep down they don't want to associate themselves with CC bc they know it's not beneficial.
    I have had other mothers tell me to do the exact same thing when my DD1 was born. If you have ruled out everything else and they still keep crying then pop them in their cot and make a cup of tea and take 5min for yourself. No different except they might go to sleep!

  2. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    So parents who don't follow sos or did it wrong put their babies to bed with a poo in their nappy? Or in a cold room? Not sure of any parent in their right mind would do either of those things. I'm not sure how you know what other parents did. Sorry if I've misinterpreted but that's how I understand it?



    just to add, as a first time mother, I had absolutely no clue as to how to dress a baby for during the day let alone when sleeping. I was always in my right mind, but I didn't know it all.

    Just to clarify, I never used her book, but it has merit and many good points. I couldn't use it as my DD had silent reflux so she only cried - well screamed and also didn't have a wings, however I can see how it works for some and doesn't for others and also why it doesn't sit well with parents - but can't those people just say, it works on a strict routine and leaving bub for a time interval to self settle, both of which doesn't suit our family?

    I just stick up for it as I've read it and I think parents who are thinking of using it shouldn't be put off because it gets a bad wrap and quite often unfairly.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Nice try at trying to make your own parenting choices look superior. The problem is your lack of understanding of the SOS philosophy is getting in the way of a good point score.

    To answer your question: I haven't read any studies just a few articles here and there. I am not arguing against you on this point: I agree. I do believe that letting a bub cry and cry would cause some issues for the bub.

    Here's the clincher: The routine worked fine with my DS to the point where apart from a little grizzlng in the first few days he never had to cry for a feed or to go to sleep. Come to think of it, DS1 probably cried less than many SOS babies who have trouble settling and sleeping through the night (not saying all non SOS babies have these problems) .

    That's what the biased naysayers don't get. If the routine works well for a bub then they shouldn't be crying and crying ...
    If you can get your kid to sleep without crying then that's fantastic and I don't think anyone would have a problem with a program that allows kids to self settle without distress. It's just that the author openly supports allowing kids to cry/grizzle/whinge (whatever you want to call it) despite the recommendations not to.

    And I'm not suggesting my parenting choices are superior, just genuinely questioning if parents were aware of the research. A lot if people may not have come across any information.
    Last edited by Acadaca; 22-04-2014 at 19:19.

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  5. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Here's the clincher: The routine worked fine with my DS to the point where apart from a little grizzlng in the first few days he never had to cry for a feed or to go to sleep. Come to think of it, DS1 probably cried less than many SOS babies who have trouble settling and sleeping through the night (not saying all non SOS babies have these problems) .

    That's what the biased naysayers don't get. If the routine works well for a bub then they shouldn't be crying and crying ...
    I think you're bang on. That is the clincher.

    It works well for some babies because of their natural tendencies. Some babies do grizzle and then nod off. There's every chance they would do this with or without any book.

    It doesn't work for other babies because of their natural tendencies. In my case, DD was a possessed banshee. With or without the book she was never ever going to grizzle and nod off.

    Putting a baby in the first group into an SOS type routine is more than likely going to end in success and isn't going to harm the baby.

    Putting a baby in the second group into an SOS type routine isn't likely to end in success and is going to cause all sorts of distress for the baby and - I'd hazard a guess - the parents.

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  7. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I think you're bang on. That is the clincher.

    It works well for some babies because of their natural tendencies. Some babies do grizzle and then nod off. There's every chance they would do this with or without any book.

    It doesn't work for other babies because of their natural tendencies. In my case, DD was a possessed banshee. With or without the book she was never ever going to grizzle and nod off.

    Putting a baby in the first group into an SOS type routine is more than likely going to end in success and isn't going to harm the baby.

    Putting a baby in the second group into an SOS type routine isn't likely to end in success and is going to cause all sorts of distress for the baby and - I'd hazard a guess - the parents.
    Agreed and I totally just had a little giggle at possessed banshee - I referred to DS1 & 2 as spawn of satan at bedtime hehe.

    My DS1 & 2 would never have worked on SOS because they never grizzled. They always had full on emotional cries. DS3 however, crawls around his cot, has a little chat and giggle to himself then curls up and snuggles his blankie to go to sleep, so an SOS routine would work on him I'd imagine (but not on me, too difficult to work around school runs)

    Different things work for different babies. If SOS doesnt work on a baby is most certainly doesnt automatically mean the parents didnt do it right.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using The Bub Hub mobile app

  8. #196
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    Also another couple of points

    RE: Vomiting there are children that will deliberately vomit to get out of going to sleep. As an early childhood teacher I currently have a child in my room who will stick his fingers down his throat to vomit so he doesn't have to sleep. He does it at home as well and has been doing it since he was about 1. Also Tizzie does NOT advocate leaving your child to cry until they vomit. She just says that some children will learn to vomit to get attention. She also does not state to leave your child sitting in vomit( or poo for that matter)

    Page 207 2010 edition

    "The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Later towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits, go in and take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her from one end to the other. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do this and be calm and confident throughout, so you fool your baby into thinking you don't care about the vomit. Once baby is asleep remove the extra towels in case baby becomes tangled in them during the night"

    This advice is also the same for bowel movements. So I don't see anything wrong with that??? There is no wording saying to leave your child to cry until they vomit or to leave them in it.

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  10. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    I think you're bang on. That is the clincher.

    It works well for some babies because of their natural tendencies. Some babies do grizzle and then nod off. There's every chance they would do this with or without any book.

    It doesn't work for other babies because of their natural tendencies. In my case, DD was a possessed banshee. With or without the book she was never ever going to grizzle and nod off.

    Putting a baby in the first group into an SOS type routine is more than likely going to end in success and isn't going to harm the baby.

    Putting a baby in the second group into an SOS type routine isn't likely to end in success and is going to cause all sorts of distress for the baby and - I'd hazard a guess - the parents.
    Totally agree, was thinking the same thing. Some kids are 'easy' babies no matter what you do. Using SOS on an easy baby doesn't mean SOS worked just that they have an easy baby. Some are the opposite.

  11. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadaca View Post
    I'm curious if any parents who have implemented SOS have read any research studies or books like 'what every parent needs to know' that document the long term damage that can be done to babies brains when they are left to cry. It has been linked with anxiety, depression and other mental illnesses. Essentially due to the brain being flooded with cortisol (stress hormone). Alternatively when babies are cuddled to sleep their brains are flooded with dopamine, oxytocin and other bonding hormones that have relaxation properties. This is the information that stops me short of using SOS or CC for my kids.
    Scaremongering at its best.

    Absolutely I researched and when I weighed up the pros and cons I came to the conclusion that teaching my DS to self settle was and still is the best decision. I can guarantee that he has cried longer and harder in the back seat of the car than he ever has alone in his cot. In fact, pre-SOS all he did was cry and cry.... and cry some more, a vicious cycle of over-tiredness and 20min catnaps here and there. Like I mentioned in my pp my DS was / is held, cuddled and kissed so often he doesn't even know what to do with all those feel good endorphins he's flooded with, he's the most loved and cuddled baby on the block so when I way up the fact that pre-sos he cried and never slept (not even getting a 1/4 of the recommended sleep for a baby of his age) to a baby who became so well rested, happy and content, than yes those few days of 10 minute tears were worth it. And I can say with my hand on my heart that I do not think for one second that the small amount of time I have left him crying has had any negative long term effect on him or on our relationship, he is being raised in an exceptionally loving, healthy and thriving family home. There are a million and one factors between toddlerhood and adulthood that can trigger anxiety and depression in a person who is predisposed to mental illness, I really wouldn't credit that to 10mins of grizzling as a baby.

    Like I alluded to in my other post, there are babies out their suffering at the hands of real neglect, left alone to cry for hours on end with their needs rarely being met, I wish people could put things into perspective and use all that energy they pour into trying to 'save' one poor Tizzie baby at a time and help those mothers who are truly emotionally and physically disconnected from their babies.

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  13. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpmakes2 View Post
    Also another couple of points

    RE: Vomiting there are children that will deliberately vomit to get out of going to sleep. As an early childhood teacher I currently have a child in my room who will stick his fingers down his throat to vomit so he doesn't have to sleep. He does it at home as well and has been doing it since he was about 1. Also Tizzie does NOT advocate leaving your child to cry until they vomit. She just says that some children will learn to vomit to get attention. She also does not state to leave your child sitting in vomit( or poo for that matter)

    Page 207 2010 edition

    "The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Later towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits, go in and take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her from one end to the other. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do this and be calm and confident throughout, so you fool your baby into thinking you don't care about the vomit. Once baby is asleep remove the extra towels in case baby becomes tangled in them during the night"

    This advice is also the same for bowel movements. So I don't see anything wrong with that??? There is no wording saying to leave your child to cry until they vomit or to leave them in it.

    I read SOS before the 2010 edition and it said to leave them in the outfit until they fall asleep then change them and generally not to make eye contact as they will manipulate you into picking them up.

    It seems as each addition changes it becomes more and more soft in it's wording, I suspect from the huge backlash she has received.
    Last edited by delirium; 22-04-2014 at 19:45.

  14. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumpmakes2 View Post
    Also another couple of points

    RE: Vomiting there are children that will deliberately vomit to get out of going to sleep. As an early childhood teacher I currently have a child in my room who will stick his fingers down his throat to vomit so he doesn't have to sleep. He does it at home as well and has been doing it since he was about 1. Also Tizzie does NOT advocate leaving your child to cry until they vomit. She just says that some children will learn to vomit to get attention. She also does not state to leave your child sitting in vomit( or poo for that matter)

    Page 207 2010 edition

    "The way you achieve this is to make the bed vomit-proof. Later towels in the bed and on the floor so it is easy for you to remove the vomit. When your baby vomits, go in and take the top towels away, leaving a second layer in case of a second vomit. If the vomit has gone on her clothing, undress her and put clean clothes on without taking her out of the cot by moving her from one end to the other. Do not make eye contact or talk to her while you do this and be calm and confident throughout, so you fool your baby into thinking you don't care about the vomit. Once baby is asleep remove the extra towels in case baby becomes tangled in them during the night"

    This advice is also the same for bowel movements. So I don't see anything wrong with that??? There is no wording saying to leave your child to cry until they vomit or to leave them in it.
    Vomiting is gross. If I had to go to the drastic measure of making myself vomit just to get my much-adored caregiver to show me some love, well... that's just so wrong.

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