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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Nette View Post
    This is exactly why I hate the book. There are no 'shoulds' with a baby. Every baby and parent are different and a book which makes it clear that there is only one way to parent is not helpful.

    My DD has been a great sleeper and eater since the beginning and has mostly slept through since 8 weeks. I read the book when she was about 10 weeks (just for interest) and discovered that I had been doing everything wrong.

    It scares me that people might read this book, have a baby that doesn't fit this unrealistic ideal and then beat themselves up about being a bad parent. When in fact it is just a story written without any science and a lot of ancedotes.
    I get what you are saying but I really had NO idea. Like I did not know that baby should sleep between feeds etc. Maybe it seems obvious to other people but it wasnt to me. The book just gave me a loose idea of what a day with a baby might look like.
    But you are right - if I had tried to follow it to the letter I think I would have ended up very stressed and upset, and with a very stressed and upset baby too.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Just speaking for me, it's not wanting a routine (both my kids had one but they set it not me) that I think causes the cafuffle when it comes to SOS is *how* it's done.

    Putting a child to bed when they are clearly tired and comforting them while they are in bed/the cot and coming straight back in when they don't settle imo is fine. It's extended periods where they child is really distressed that upsets people.
    Not that I even did this part, but she isn't advocating leaving a baby to cry. She is referring to 'protest crying' (gosh I hate that term, because I really don't believe it's a form of crying) which is so very different, it's the sound both girls have made as a way to get themselves off to sleep.

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  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    I'm going to extend on this.

    I hear all too often that mums are struggling with the limited sleep and that their babies will only sleep on them. I was like that with dd2 until I got her into a routine.
    As soon as I suggest getting bub into a routine, out come the comments about how it's not natural, babies need to be cuddled to sleep etc. If it's leaving you really exhausted, how is that good?

    What's so wrong with helping my baby to know what comes next? What's so wrong with showing her that she can go off to sleep and I'm there if she needs me?
    I think there are two or three types of people when it comes to sleep deprivation: some can handle it fine, others struggle and a third group really really struggle with it. I'm in the latter group and there's no way I could be a good parent existing on very little sleep so for me, sleep training is a must.

    I'm lucky I had several friends go through it before me so I could see how happy, healthy and content their sleep-trained kids are. I never worried I'd be hurting my DD by getting her into a good routine. I never left her to cry and she slept through from 11 weeks. It's all about routine and spacing out the feeds to 4 hourly.

    I also think it's really hard training a kid to sleep when they're breastfed and for me the benefits of sleep (for baby and parent) outweigh the slight benefits of BF, so I'll be formula feeding my next baby.

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  6. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    It's extended periods where they child is really distressed that upsets people.
    But then, according to the gospel of T, you got your cries wrong, or they weren't crying, they were grizzling, or you just need to use your common sense, or of course you don't do *that* part, or I use a dummy and I cuddle.

    So upshot is, if it doesn't work, or if it doesn't feel right it's the parents fault.

    The woman spins it like a pro.
    Last edited by misskittyfantastico; 21-04-2014 at 21:14.

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  8. #95
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    In the book, she says that to teach a 2 week old baby to sleep that you should put them in bed, make a cup of tea and drink it. She says to be prepared for crying. She says if the baby is still awake and crying after 20 minutes then go in, but more often than not the baby will be asleep. Now if that's not CIO, then I don't know what is!

    Anyway, I don't understand how someone can put a newborn baby in her routine. Babies do wake up. Their stomachs are a lot smaller than ours, it's just common sense that they should wake. It's part of being a parent. I don't like the idea of introducing solids just to make a baby sleep either. I have heard of sleep specialists recommending this from as young as 6 weeks to get babies to sleep through. No way in hell!

    Whilst I don't believe in this book, I did have a consistent night time routine with all 3 of my babies from birth that included bath, feed, bed. My children could put themselves to sleep from 3 months, some even earlier. After having 3 babies, I learnt that every one of them is different. But I was lucky enough to have babies that slept well at night time, with only a few rough patches here and there. All my babies have had dummies and not woken for them. I've never done a dream feed with any of my babies.

    I can totally understand parents who are absolutely desperate after months and months of night wakings who are willing to do anything to get more sleep, but I just don't understand why people would implement her methods on young babies.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 21-04-2014 at 21:11.

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  10. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    I'm going to extend on this.

    I hear all too often that mums are struggling with the limited sleep and that their babies will only sleep on them. I was like that with dd2 until I got her into a routine.
    As soon as I suggest getting bub into a routine, out come the comments about how it's not natural, babies need to be cuddled to sleep etc. If it's leaving you really exhausted, how is that good?

    What's so wrong with helping my baby to know what comes next? What's so wrong with showing her that she can go off to sleep and I'm there if she needs me?
    Different strokes for different folks Do what works for you, is my philosophy, so long as it's safe. Following strict SOS is not safe IMO. Taking parts of it and modifying it can most likely work well for some families, I'm sure. It's just not for us. We can't do strict routines as our family has lots of extracurricular stuff on, plus shift work. We just work around it all We don't do any kind of CIO or CC as research shows it's damaging. And I'm another with a non grizzler. If DD cries, she is crying, iykwim. She is hurt or she needs us.

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    I used the routine roughly when DS was a baby. I think it took 2 or 3 days before he was pretty much following the day routine and it was a similar time frame for the night routine.

    I think we only strictly followed the schedule for about 1 week, then after that we relaxed and let him do his thing. He's always been an excellent sleeper, especially at night. I would definitely get the book out again if we have another bub, and would probably do a similar kind of thing

    If it works for you, and you're happy to use it, then go for it. If not, do your own thing. Is it really any one else's business?

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    Quote Originally Posted by redlipsandpearls View Post
    Not that I even did this part, but she isn't advocating leaving a baby to cry. She is referring to 'protest crying' (gosh I hate that term, because I really don't believe it's a form of crying) which is so very different, it's the sound both girls have made as a way to get themselves off to sleep.
    But as Kitty said, she's a pro at spin. On one hand she says there's a difference then tells parents to allow a vomiting child to cry alone bc it's manipulation. Clearly a small kid is pretty distressed to vomit. There are so many contradictions in her book. I remember reading it in my 2nd tri along with "What to expect when you are Expecting" and thinking wtf? this woman is insane! lol

  13. #99
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    ~Marigold~ is offline You make me happy, when skies are grey
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    In the book, she says that to teach a 2 week old baby to sleep that you should put them in bed, make a cup of tea and drink it. She says to be prepared for crying. She says if the baby is still awake and crying after 20 minutes then go in, but more often than not the baby will be asleep. Now if that's not CIO, then I don't know what is!

    Anyway, I don't understand how someone can put a newborn baby in her routine. Babies do wake up. Their stomachs are a lot smaller than ours, it's just common sense that they should wake. It's part of being a parent. I don't like the idea of introducing solids just to make a baby sleep either. I have heard of sleep specialists recommending this from as young as 6 weeks to get babies to sleep through. No way in hell!

    Whilst I don't believe in this book, I did have a consistent night time routine with all 3 of my babies from birth that included bath, feed, bed. My children could put themselves to sleep from 3 months, some even earlier. After having 3 babies, I learnt that every one of them is different. But I was lick enough to have babies that skier well at night time, with only a few rough patches here and there. All my babies have had dummies and not woken for them. I've never done a dream feed with any of my babies.

    I can totally understand parents who are absolutely desperate after months and months of night wakings who are willing to do anything to get more sleep, but I just don't understand why people would implement her methods on young babies.
    It *is* CIO, I agree.

    The more I'm learning about her methods, the more I'm certain it's nothing at all like CC though. ( which again, is different to CIO).
    CC isn't even recommended until 6 months and I've never heard of leaving a baby for 20 minutes...a newborn at that, that's f!#ked, sorry, no other way to describe it.

    Sent from my GT-S7500T using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpancakes View Post

    I also think it's really hard training a kid to sleep when they're breastfed and for me the benefits of sleep (for baby and parent) outweigh the slight benefits of BF, so I'll be formula feeding my next baby.

    By all means, you should feed your child however you like. The benefits of breastfeeding are not slight, however. Aside from the health benefits provided by the antibodies in BM, there is also the lessened risk of SIDS. All I'm saying is look into it. Sleep is important, sure. But (and just my opinion, of course) it's important to look at all aspects before making a decision.
    (In no way having a dig at anyone for ff as I have done so myself with my first DD)
    Last edited by Atropos; 21-04-2014 at 21:20.

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