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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    Going to have to come back to this thread when I can jump on my computer. Clearly if people think I'm all for inequality and base my whole perception on feminism from a few chance encounters, I'm not articulating myself well. -_-
    Oh I know you're not all for inequality- I just think perhaps your experience with misandrists claiming to be feminists is not the "norm", so to speak.

  2. #32
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    We, as parents, are the one who can change sexism in our daily lives.

    Until they reached 3yo, a study has shown that to the question "which gender do you think is best?" children would answer their own gender.

    Past 3yo, the answer "male" become predominant especially in families with more traditional house chores repartition. It is also the predominant answer with kids exposed to TV.

    I believe that we as parents do have all the answers to make a big change in gender equality.

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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Oh I know you're not all for inequality- I just think perhaps your experience with misandrists claiming to be feminists is not the "norm", so to speak.
    But that's the thing (I will come back later, but this bit I can type on my phone), there might not be a proper "group" of these people but the encounters that every day people have with this side of "feminism" is getting more and more often. I used a few examples from me and one of my housemates but they aren't isolated incidences. They happen more and more often and it's getting to the point where people who believe in equality now refuse to listen to even equal rights feminists. This is really, really damaging because if no one will listen, nothing will be fixed. I don't know if I notice them more often because I associate with a lot of uni students and most of it comes from them or if it's actually getting to be a big "thing" in Victoria or what. But it makes me bang my head against my metaphorical desk.

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    Only a small percentage of those that consider themselves feminist are 'bra burners'. Every single opinion and life choice has extremists. In religion, bfing, politics, in a million parenting choices, I could go on. To tar us all with the same brush is misinformed and silly.

    I think people are blinkered if they feel women experience equality in the workplace and their lives. And that's in Australia where women are treated great in comparison to the rest of the world. Look at the countries where women are murdered, raped, beaten and sold and nothing is done.

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  7. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    Men don't have extended time away from the work force during phases of important career growth and progression as do women having time off for children, and this time of often leaves women at a disadvantage foe promotion because they may not be able to dedicate the hours and may have more absence sure to caring for children. Also women are often left with less super at the end of their careers sure to time of for raising children.


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    But you see this is the crux of my point, its the situation caused by women being the ones in the most part who stay at home.absolutely, BUT as individuals and in couples it is we who put ourselves in this position.

    It wouldn't be an issue if men decided to stay at home, so who's fault is it? Society's or the woman or couple who make the decision? I think the latter.

    We are too quick ,to fob it off as a societal issue, rather than something we do in fact have control over.

    The forklift operator example used earlier too, its a higher risk job. Again, there's no reason why a woman can't choose to be a forklift driver, or a man can't be a receptionist. This too cam change by individuals taking personal responsibility for choosing a career they want or us as parents telling our daughters they can be what ever they want, whether a forklift driver or a receptionist. I'd rather that be my message to my DD than telling her about stats of careers, their pay and who works in them. Again I see that as counter productive and won't do anything to change anything.

    I guess really my issue is how we go about equality, not the expecting it, of course we expect it but also the negative impacts aren't as negative as it is thought.

  8. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    But you see this is the crux of my point, its the situation caused by women being the ones in the most part who stay at home.absolutely, BUT as individuals and in couples it is we who put ourselves in this position.

    It wouldn't be an issue if men decided to stay at home, so who's fault is it? Society's or the woman or couple who make the decision? I think the latter.

    We are too quick ,to fob it off as a societal issue, rather than something we do in fact have control over.
    But this is so overly simplistic. Women often DO stay home for reasons beyond pure choice. Bc they feel they will be judged as being non maternal. Bc they bf and the man simply can't. Bc their workplace is not supportive of women with small children. Bc they are under trained and under paid and by the time they pay CC they are making zero.

    Why don't more men stay home? bc society says it's women's work.

    For me feminism is about offering women choices. I'm a SAHM purely by choice. Not all women get that. And this is where it becomes a cyclic argument. You say women do already have heaps of choices. Those choices have come about from feminism! and in order to have more choice, feminism needs to stay on the agenda.

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  10. #37
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    I just really struggle with this anti femo stuff from other women who believe it's just extremism and we are equal...... the reasons we have made such inroads in the last 50 years is directly bc of this 'extremism'. The suffragettes were considered extremists - we now vote. The women of the 60's were 'bra burners' yet we now work, have access to birth control. Yes, those that hate men annoy me, a lot. But again, they are the minority.

    I think women in 3rd world countries would shake their heads at some of the comments here and wish that feminism was more alive in their community.

    I actually view the comments in this thread as proof of what feminism has given us

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  12. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    I often wonder if equal rights feminists are horribly embaressed by women-ruling-the-earth, lets have a matriarchal society, **** men, they all suck! Type feminists, or if they feel these types do no favours for the feminist movement itself?
    From talking to people, these feminists are the ones who yell the loudest and have the biggest voice. They try and oppress men, almost to punish them for stuff they hadn't done, simply because they have a penis, which could be why a lot of people refuse to be associated with the idea of feminism, because tbh these people tarnish the whole idea horrendously.
    So it could be people don't see the way women in society are treated as lesser, because when one hears some demands of these matriarch-society feminists, it really sounds like they just want more. Not equality, they want to be above men, treated better than, paid better than the males in society. I guess people figure that if we weren't equals, that would be their first issue but it never seems to be, alqays they want more.


    Thank you!!! This is what I was trying to say too but had no idea how to say it.

  13. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie Pallie View Post
    But you see this is the crux of my point, its the situation caused by women being the ones in the most part who stay at home.absolutely, BUT as individuals and in couples it is we who put ourselves in this position.

    It wouldn't be an issue if men decided to stay at home, so who's fault is it? Society's or the woman or couple who make the decision? I think the latter.

    We are too quick ,to fob it off as a societal issue, rather than something we do in fact have control over.

    The forklift operator example used earlier too, its a higher risk job. Again, there's no reason why a woman can't choose to be a forklift driver, or a man can't be a receptionist. This too cam change by individuals taking personal responsibility for choosing a career they want or us as parents telling our daughters they can be what ever they want, whether a forklift driver or a receptionist. I'd rather that be my message to my DD than telling her about stats of careers, their pay and who works in them. Again I see that as counter productive and won't do anything to change anything.

    I guess really my issue is how we go about equality, not the expecting it, of course we expect it but also the negative impacts aren't as negative as it is thought.
    ...so it is our fault we are unequal?

    How is a forklift operator more high risk that a childcare worker? A forklift driver moves stuff from one place to another (talking standard and not hi reach forks) whereas a childcare worker has responsibility for a number of children from babies to age 4- all of which are more volatile that a pallet of stuff

  14. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by btmac View Post
    I will be really interested to hear your response @Sonja as I know we both work in the legal profession.

    When I told my principal I was pregnant with DS2 (after having worked my but off for over 10 years trying to catch back up to my peers after DS1) he said to me - you know this will end your career don't you?

    Trust me OP the 'idea' of equality is alive and well but the practice is sorely lacking in many professions.


    He obviously assumed you wouldn't return to work full time. I'm sure if you chose to, your career most definitely wouldn't be over. Its not the fact you're a mum, its the nit returning to work full time that can end or put career on hold.


 

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