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    No one is saying they don't exist, we are saying they are in the minority. Some people are jerks no matter what they are passionate about. You are trying to brand all feminists with a small minority that has spawned into an exaggerated semi-myth to somehow prove how feminism has gone to far. Then becoming upset when people point out most feminists are not like that.

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    I believe they exist. They are not however a representation of feminism, they are a minority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    No one is saying they don't exist, we are saying they are in the minority. Some people are jerks no matter what they are passionate about. You are trying to brand all feminists with a small minority that has spawned into an exaggerated semi-myth to somehow prove how feminism has gone to far. Then becoming upset when people point out most feminists are not like that.
    Actually, I'm not. In my very first post I seperated the two and continued to do so. My point was that a lot of people don't. I'm getting upset at being called "silly and naive" and being told they don't exist and so obviously the large groups of people I know are figments of my imagination. The damage to the reputation of actual femenists is a figment of my imagination.

    Oh, I do find it a bit sh1t that because I argue I'm all for inquality though.

    But how's this (now I am wishing I could get on a computer, but too late now). A group of men tried to form a menist (?) group because they felt discriminated against on the basis of them being male. It was supposed to stop domesric violence toward other men because it's a subject that isn't thought of much, and bring to light men being raped. And they were shouted down for it and so I don't think it happened. They were told they're privleged enough and don't need a menist ( is that what it would be?) Group because they're male.

    Then I see the figures for domestic violence against women and all that and I sit and wonder why as equal rights activists, they aren't just trying to stop domestic violence full stop, regardless of gender? Because raging against domestic violence against women is understandable and should be done, it just quiwtly sends the message that even though we know men are abused by their spouses, the number is much lower than a woman and so therefor can be let slide. And it is usually worse against women, I'm not debating that, but any kind of thing like this sets my teeth on edge and makes me wonder.

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  6. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    Actually, I'm not. In my very first post I seperated the two and continued to do so. My point was that a lot of people don't. I'm getting upset at being called "silly and naive" and being told they don't exist and so obviously the large groups of people I know are figments of my imagination. The damage to the reputation of actual femenists is a figment of my imagination.
    I guess we're making the same point then, that a lot of people don't separate them?

    I've read enough of your posts to be absolutely confident in saying that I don't think you are remotely silly or naïve :-)

    And I agree, it is a serious damage to the reputation of actual feminists. My argument was to query *why* it is still the most common mental image people have of a feminist when by now we know that there is far more to feminism than that, and, in many circles at least, this stereotype is in the minority...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    Because raging against domestic violence against women is understandable and should be done, it just quiwtly sends the message that even though we know men are abused by their spouses, the number is much lower than a woman and so therefor can be let slide. And it is usually worse against women, I'm not debating that, but any kind of thing like this sets my teeth on edge and makes me wonder.
    I'm trying to understand why you think that standing up against violence against women quietly(?) sends the message that violence against men can be let slide... It doesn't imply that at all!

    But you say yourself it's worse against women - indeed, one woman in three experience violence at the hand of a man in this country - and this is why people rage against it!

    Most men who are victims of violence are victims of violence by other men.

    None of this negates that men can be victims of domestic violence. The greater stand against violence against women is because women are far more likely to be victims, and it is far too common in this country, it's shocking! But, you will find the laws cover anyone who is a victim of violence, the law is not gender specific. A male who is a victim of DV should and can use the law as protection too.

  8. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    But how's this (now I am wishing I could get on a computer, but too late now). A group of men tried to form a menist (?) group because they felt discriminated against on the basis of them being male. It was supposed to stop domesric violence toward other men because it's a subject that isn't thought of much, and bring to light men being raped. And they were shouted down for it and so I don't think it happened. They were told they're privleged enough and don't need a menist ( is that what it would be?) Group because they're male.
    I would argue that the actions of such people who 'shouted down' the men forming what I assume would be a support group is very anti-feminist. They can call themselves what they want but their actions have proven them to be anti-feminist. I can call myself a vegtarian but if I go an eat a steak I'm not being vegetarian! What is sad is that I (or others) say "feminist" and you (and some others) automatically think such individuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoteToSelf View Post
    Really?!?!

    20% of women who have been sexually assaulted as adults
    35% of women who have been physically abused by their intimate partner as adults
    The 12% of girls who were sexually assaulted before they were 15
    15% of women experience violence at the hands of their partner during their pregnancy, for half of those women the violence first starts during the pregnancy
    Domestic Violence causes the greatest risk of disease and premature death in the 15-44 year age bracket
    More than one woman is killed every week by her current or former partner in Australia.

    The vast majority of these crimes are perpetrated by men. Violence against women in Australia is a gender issue, it is a feminist issue.

    So no, there is no `sensationalism and misguided whinging' when it comes to women being disadvantaged. We ARE disadvantaged by virtue of our sex, we are far more likely to be physically, emotionally or sexually abused than a man, and the cherry on top is we are more likely to be murdered in our own homes. These actions come about because of the life choices and actions of the perpetrator, not the victim (woman).

    Your simple summary shows gob smacking ignorance.
    Quote all the stats you like, I'm not in disagreeance about DV/sexual assault etc. I'm talking about claims of disadvantage in the workplace being sensationalized and women blaming others for being disadvantaged instead of looking in the mirror.

    So if you want to talk about violence against women go ahead and good luck to you, but leave my posts out of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskittyfantastico View Post
    You're on fire tonight! Been into the red?
    No .... I was going to have a crack Saturday night . But someone deciding to start an SOS thread on a Monday night has thrown my schedule out of whack...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsharvey View Post
    I guess we're making the same point then, that a lot of people don't separate them?

    I've read enough of your posts to be absolutely confident in saying that I don't think you are remotely silly or naïve :-)

    And I agree, it is a serious damage to the reputation of actual feminists. My argument was to query *why* it is still the most common mental image people have of a feminist when by now we know that there is far more to feminism than that, and, in many circles at least, this stereotype is in the minority...



    this thread has most definitely opened my eyes to that, I've always seen feminism as men hating, bra burning types, so I now know this not to be true.

    I do still think there are elements of exaggerating the severity of inequality between men and women (today) and that in many cases there needs to be more personal responsibility taken (with the exception of domestic violence and rape etc) but I'm sure we can all agree to disagree on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I'm talking about claims of disadvantage in the workplace being sensationalized and women blaming others for being disadvantaged instead of looking in the mirror.
    I've had much success in a male dominated industry and also in a 'boys school' management environment. I've never rested on my laurels and sobbed 'boohoo poor me can't get a payrise/promotion/taken seriously because I am a woman'. I've gone out and worked hard to prove myself, I've stormed in and demanded what I want and I learnt how to play 'their game by their rules'.

    Doesn't change the fact that the presumptions and discrimination based on gender exist and are still very much an obstacle to be overcome.

    Sent from my GT-S5830 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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