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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    With respect John- that part of the debate isn't over- there's no reason our policy can't change to be inline with the UNHCR
    I just don't see the point in debating how (or if) to "stop the boats" once irregular maritime arrivals have already stopped. Let's focus on the problem at hand, which is the 30,000+ people awaiting status determination.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I explained my reasons above.
    Sorry but where did we establish your qualifications? Apologies if I missed it?

    Eta http://www.listgbarristers.com.au/ba.../detail/?id=35
    Here are Julian Burnsides qualifications, areas of expertise, experience etc- also his contact details if you need them. As I said I'd love to see his response if you get one?
    Last edited by Atropos; 11-04-2014 at 07:54.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    I just don't see the point in debating how (or if) to "stop the boats" once irregular maritime arrivals have already stopped. Let's focus on the problem at hand, which is the 30,000+ people awaiting status determination.
    The stopping part is the issue- we're actively violating international law and convention to which we are signatory. I see that as a big problem worth addressing, as well as that of those in detention definitely.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    The stopping part is the issue- we're actively violating international law and convention to which we are signatory.
    It is not clear to me that we have breached international law. Burnside does not make such a case beyond rejecting the term "illegal" (with which I agree). But again, the question is rendered moot in the absence of any boats to interdict.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    It is not clear to me that we have breached international law. Burnside does not make such a case beyond rejecting the term "illegal" (with which I agree). But again, the question is rendered moot in the absence of any boats to interdict.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-1...ts-bac/5195328

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...ernational-law

    And also with regard to detainees:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...822-2sei6.html

  6. #66
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    Also, do you really think no boats will ever come again John? Truly? Even after the Tampa tow backs and the pacific solution, the boats returned. Surely it's prudent to find better ways of helping these people when they do.

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    There are a range of opinions, and it would appear boat turn-back breaches European human rights law. However, it should be remembered that the US has been turning back boats for decades under its "wet-foot, dry-foot" policy. As the SBS piece says:
    But while some international law experts are certain the Australian government is breaking laws, international bodies are more cautious.
    And the UNHCR itself hasn't really said peep about this in the past couple of months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Indefinite detention is a different matter, but to date lawyers have not had much success in getting the High Court to strike down the Howard govt laws as being inconsistent with our international obligations.

    As well as being unethical, closed detention strikes me as bad policy, even for this govt. More generally, govt actions that violate the principle of habeas corpus should disturb everyone, no matter what they think about asylum seeker policy.

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    Atropos  (11-04-2014)

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Also, do you really think no boats will ever come again John? Truly? Even after the Tampa tow backs and the pacific solution, the boats returned. Surely it's prudent to find better ways of helping these people when they do.
    I'm not saying there will not be a single boat, but the fact is that people smuggling resumed when the Howard-era deterrence was removed without being replaced by anything.

    So now we have the cruel irony that the boats have again been stopped but to keep them stopped we need to maintain the current policy, even in the absence of any more "boat people".

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    Father  (11-04-2014)

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  12. #70
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    Today's Nielsen poll gives a 2PP lead for Labor of 52-48, based almost entirely on a rise in the Green vote.

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...413-zqu9c.html

    I am disinclined to read too much into any individual poll, and a 17% primary for the Greens may well owe something to sampling error, although a genuine disenchantment with both major parties is probably real as well.

    But if we look at the aggregate picture of the polls over the past several months it would seem the govt and opposition are probably level-pegging.

    The Nielsen poll asked specifically about both "knights and dames" and changes to the Racial Discrimination Act, and on both counts these score as negative distractions for Abbott. Expect a serious watering-down of Brandis's "okay to be bigots" amendment before it is presented to Parliament.

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    Atropos  (14-04-2014)


 

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