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  1. #51
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    so their position is very precarious when their people smuggler takes back the dodgy travel documents. From that time, if they are found, they are liable to be jailed, or sent back to the country that has been persecuting them. Asylum seekers who get to Indonesia live in perpetual fear of detection
    The people smuggler takes back their documents after arriving in Malaysia or Indonesia? How does that even work? Maybe they shouldn’t have resorted to illegal papers, forgery, and people smugglers in the first place. They could have travelled to Australia just like those listed in the link above, or crossed to a neighbouring country that is a signatory. Why did they choose Indonesia as the destination when they went to the airport if it is so fearful?

    Indonesia, asylum seekers can go to the UNHCR office and seek refugee status. Those who are assessed as refugees may wait 20 or 30 years before they are offered a place in a safe country.
    Is he suggesting that he thinks its valid to ‘cut the queue’ and pay your own way and make the others wait longer? I’m not sure what he is trying to point out here. Again, why did they travel to Indonesia in the first place?

    In the meantime they cannot get jobs, and their kids cannot go to school, for fear of detection. In countries that have not signed the Refugee Convention, they are truly “illegal”.
    Again, why did they fly to a country that they are illegal in rather than any other country on offer? Including Australia?

    Not surprisingly, some of them – those with initiative and courage – place themselves in the hands of people smugglers, commit themselves to a dangerous boat trip, and end up in Australia.
    He did not include ‘money’. Was it not their intention to ‘end up’ in Australia when they arrived in Indonesia in the first place?

    The tragic irony of their position is that they are the focus of political attack, while the larger number of plane arrivals create hardly a ripple of concern.
    After 2011, plane arrivals were definitely not the ‘larger number’.

    This is the direct result of dishonest statements by Coalition governments: first the Howard government and now the Abbott government. But although it is Coalition governments who have actively lied about boat people, Labor has never – in opposition or in government – contradicted the lies.
    Big call calling them all liars.

    A promise to “stop the boats” fairly swiftly became a process of stopping information about the boats.
    Does he want more regular briefings to say: “There have been no arrivals since ___”? I’d be happy with that, as I cannot recall how many days ago the 100 day milestone was reached.

    This, despite the fact that boat people are not “illegals”: coming to Australia the way they do to seek protection is not an offence against any law.
    Except of cause the migration act. It is unlawful to enter Australia without a visa.

    The so-called Pacific Solution is designed, ostensibly, to protect refugees from the perils of the sea. It does this, rather perversely, by waiting until refugees arrive safely in Christmas Island and then transports them, against their will, to Manus or Nauru.
    Except that a boat has not arrived at Christmas Island for well over 100 days. They are being stopped well prior. But don’t let the facts get in the way of a rant.

    The theory is, apparently, that if we are cruel enough to people who have escaped persecution, others will prefer to stand and face their persecutors.
    Whose theory is that?

    Like most refugee advocates, I am not opposed to the concept of off-shore processing: it all depends on what that means. The refugee movement is about resettlement in a safe place. From the refugee’s point of view, it does not much matter where the processing takes place. But the processing has to be fair and efficient, and resettlement has to be swift.
    Tell that to the poor refugees in camps around the world who have been processed, and have been waiting for years for a country to take them. People that Australia should be taking.

    Australia received around 25,000 Indo-Chinese refugees each year for a few years. It caused no discernible social trouble.
    Sounds good. Take refugees from camps around the world, rather than those that shop for Australia.

  2. #52
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    Let us make some bold assumptions. Let’s assume that the spike in arrivals that we saw in 2012 became the new norm (highly unlikely);
    2013 was worse again. Evidence would suggest that it is very likely.

    and let’s assume that every asylum seeker remained on Centrelink benefits (also highly unlikely: they are highly motivated).
    Is that his opinion or does he have facts? Over 90% of Afghan refugees were still on Centrelink payments after 5 years.

    It would cost us about $500 million a year
    $480 a week per person for everything? Including education, accommodation, allowances, medical?

    And the $500 million would be spent in the struggling economies of regional towns and cities.
    Big call. Maybe if you gave them food tokens that could only be used in that location.

    While we pride ourselves as a generous, laid-back country that embraces the ideal of a fair go, we are seen overseas as selfish and cruel.
    By who? He really could afford to be more specific and not generalize so much.
    It is a tragedy for Australia that its international reputation is being so damaged.
    How has it been damaged? An example?

    It is a tragedy that most of us do not realise how badly both major parties are behaving.
    How many have died at sea recently? Or is death not an appropriate measure of compassion?


    Overall, this piece offers very little other than unsubstantiated claims and generalisations.
    I do not see his ‘solution’ as a solution at all. Let alone a ‘better solution’. For example, these 20,000 arrivals each year will be ‘released into the community’ into ‘specified regional cities’. Where does Julian suggest they are all going to live? In tents provided by the government? Or just find a rental? He may be faced with a bit of a supply and demand problem. Do these towns that want a population increase have jobs available in them? Generally, the populations are small for a reason… ie. Lack of jobs. Let alone towns with sufficient rentals available to house them.
    Whilst it may sound good in theory, I would imagine that the end result would be a further spike in arrivals numbers which would swamp such a ‘policy’ making it completely unworkable.
    But, at least he suggested a solution. It is something that most refugee advocates fail to do.

  3. #53
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    I think this discussion is rather beside the point. It would appear irregular maritime arrivals have indeed stopped. Though opinion is sharply polarised on how that was achieved, neither side of politics is going to undo the policy instruments that got us to this point. That part of the debate is effectively over.

    Attention should now be focused on how we deal expeditiously and compassionately with the casualties, who fall into a number of categories.
    • Persons now stranded in SE Asia who cannot return home because they genuinely are fleeing danger and persecution. Number unknown.
    • Persons held at Manus and Nauru in what are effectively POW camps. About 2,500.
    • Persons held in the detention network (including Christmas Island). About 5,000.
    • Persons on Bridging Visa E awaiting status determination. The majority of these are currently unable to work under an outdated Labor policy. More than 25,000.

    That's a lot of people, and they are the ones we should be talking about now.

  4. #54
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    Oh god, how could i not realise that @Father would know more than the well respected Julian Burnside, QC?
    I'm not going to answer your comments. I think you should direct them to him and see if his answers can satisfy you- anything I say will definitely not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Oh god, how could i not realise that @Father would know more than the well respected Julian Burnside, QC?
    I'm not going to answer your comments. I think you should direct them to him and see if his answers can satisfy you- anything I say will definitely not.
    I didn't think you would respond to any of my comments.
    I will send my comments to him and hope to receive a response.

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  7. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    I think this discussion is rather beside the point. It would appear irregular maritime arrivals have indeed stopped. Though opinion is sharply polarised on how that was achieved, neither side of politics is going to undo the policy instruments that got us to this point. That part of the debate is effectively over.

    Attention should now be focused on how we deal expeditiously and compassionately with the casualties, who fall into a number of categories.
    • Persons now stranded in SE Asia who cannot return home because they genuinely are fleeing danger and persecution. Number unknown.
    • Persons held at Manus and Nauru in what are effectively POW camps. About 2,500.
    • Persons held in the detention network (including Christmas Island). About 5,000.
    • Persons on Bridging Visa E awaiting status determination. The majority of these are currently unable to work under an outdated Labor policy. More than 25,000.

    That's a lot of people, and they are the ones we should be talking about now.
    But a QC is discussing it, so we all must listen.
    I agree with your comments. A lot of people arrived in a short period of time. Now that the boats have stopped, attention can turn to what will happen with them.

  8. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    I think this discussion is rather beside the point. It would appear irregular maritime arrivals have indeed stopped. Though opinion is sharply polarised on how that was achieved, neither side of politics is going to undo the policy instruments that got us to this point. That part of the debate is effectively over.

    Attention should now be focused on how we deal expeditiously and compassionately with the casualties, who fall into a number of categories.
    • Persons now stranded in SE Asia who cannot return home because they genuinely are fleeing danger and persecution. Number unknown.
    • Persons held at Manus and Nauru in what are effectively POW camps. About 2,500.
    • Persons held in the detention network (including Christmas Island). About 5,000.
    • Persons on Bridging Visa E awaiting status determination. The majority of these are currently unable to work under an outdated Labor policy. More than 25,000.

    That's a lot of people, and they are the ones we should be talking about now.
    With respect John- that part of the debate isn't over- there's no reason our policy can't change to be inline with the UNHCR

    The plight of those in detention already is also certainly relevant. Burnside points out that their (mis)treatment is being used as a deterrent to other refugees- exploiting them in this way is atrocious.

  9. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I didn't think you would respond to any of my comments.
    I will send my comments to him and hope to receive a response.
    Would love to see his response

  10. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    But a QC is discussing it, so we all must listen.
    I agree with your comments. A lot of people arrived in a short period of time. Now that the boats have stopped, attention can turn to what will happen with them.
    Are your qualification better than a QCs? Why does his opinion earn rolled eyes?

  11. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Are your qualification better than a QCs? Why does his opinion earn rolled eyes?
    I explained my reasons above.


 

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