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    Default Detention numbers falling

    As of today, it has now been 100 days with no boat arrivals in Australia.
    On top of that, since the Coalition came to government, more than 600 'asylum seekers' have returned back to their homes. Labor was opening detention centres, now the Coalition is closing them down as the numbers in detention drop.
    This is surely a good thing for those who despise detention centres.

    It also says a lot about the legitimacy of some of the 'asylum seekers'. That over 400 of them have put up their hands and asked to go home. What were they fleeing from?

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    I agree it is a good thing if fewer people are risking their lives (and feeding criminal people smuggling rackets) by getting on boats. A few points to note:

    1. The term asylum seeker should not be put in scare quotes. Virtually all IMAs are seeking asylum; whether their request for asylum is granted down the track is a different issue. In other words, asylum seeker and genuine refugee are not synonymous.

    2. Both the linked article and the ABC report of the same press conference seem to cite the minister as saying there are 30,000 persons in detention. This is false. There are about 24,000 on bridging visas, with the remaining 6,000 or so in some form of detention (not counting Manus and Nauru). There is every reason to believe that the vast majority of these people will eventually be granted refugee status, as happened under the Howard govt.

    3. It is wrong to draw conclusions about how genuine a person's claim for refugee status is based on their decision to return home, particularly given the intolerable, not to say inhuman, conditions at Manus and other detention centres. Even the govt avoids this kind of glib editorialising.

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    I can't celebrate asylum seekers being returned to their homes as you do. They are being returned to a country that they saw fit to risk their lives to flee, most would have had good reason to do so. Some may not even have homes to return to.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    It also says a lot about the legitimacy of some of the 'asylum seekers'. That over 400 of them have put up their hands and asked to go home. What were they fleeing from?
    I think it says more about their treatment by our Government.

    ETA: The conditions in our detention centres and the ridiculous time frames for processing asylum seekers are a huge concern to me.
    Last edited by ABigDeepBreath; 30-03-2014 at 00:24.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ABigDeepBreath View Post
    ... the ridiculous time frames for processing asylum seekers are a huge concern to me.
    But wait, there's more! Even if someone is processed and found to be a genuine refugee, they cannot receive a permanent protection visa this financial year, due to a cap Morrison imposed in response to the Senate disallowance of TPVs.

    It's unclear how this will play out, but my guess is that for the tens of thousands of asylum seekers already here and eventually found to be genuine refugees, it still could be years before most have the security of a permanent visa.

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    People not coming on rickety boats is a
    Good thing. And I have no doubt a chunk of the asylum
    Seekers are not genuine refugees (unless the defintion has been expanded to include economic refugees..).

    So while I do in a way party celebrate this article on the other hand I also worry about those genuine refugees who aren't being granted asylum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    People not coming on rickety boats is a
    Good thing. And I have no doubt a chunk of the asylum
    Seekers are not genuine refugees (unless the defintion has been expanded to include economic refugees..).

    So while I do in a way party celebrate this article on the other hand I also worry about those genuine refugees who aren't being granted asylum.
    You know that on average, around 90%+ have been found to be genuine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    You know that on average, around 90%+ have been found to be genuine?
    You know, that on average, only around 60% are found genuine on initial assessment. It is only after a couple of appeals does the number increase to the 90% mark.
    Around 80% of the 'no' decisions are overturned through the courts. Are the people making those original assessments incompetent to be wrong on so many occasions?

    You seem to like things from the 'horse's mouth' rather than from the dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    If info from the horses mouth isn't enough to convince you, I can't help you.
    So maybe you'll take this former senior Immigration Department official's word for it. ie. the horse's mouth:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1226664169170#

    "Having considerable experience interviewing and assessing boat arrival claims, I can confidently say ... that we are approving large numbers of people who are fabricating claims,"
    But hey. You can believe who you like. I just find it very hard to believe that 80% of the time DIAC's assessment is wrong. Maybe you can explain this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    You know, that on average, only around 60% are found genuine on initial assessment. It is only after a couple of appeals does the number increase to the 90% mark.
    Around 80% of the 'no' decisions are overturned through the courts. Are the people making those original assessments incompetent to be wrong on so many occasions?

    You seem to like things from the 'horse's mouth' rather than from the dept.



    So maybe you'll take this former senior Immigration Department official's word for it. ie. the horse's mouth:

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1226664169170#



    But hey. You can believe who you like. I just find it very hard to believe that 80% of the time DIAC's assessment is wrong. Maybe you can explain this?
    Sorry, I don't see your point. An appeal usually means more information is available for consideration, yes? Why is it so hard to believe that an initial assessment of a traumatised person may not contain all available info??
    That's just a guess of course, I hardly think you can expect ME to explain why DIAC is wrong??

    Even so, my high school maths was never great, but 60% is still a majority, right? So say a thousand refugees, that is, what, 600 genuine refugees?
    What is happening to them?

    The point you seem to miss in these threads is that while the boats are apparently being stopped- the reasons that genuine refugees are in danger, being hunted, persecuted etc- those things HAVE NOT STOPPED. All that has happened is that they have one less safe port to flee to. Quibble all you like over numbers, delight all you like in the apparent success of the stop the boats "policy"- while it's true that some lives may have been saved in terms of them not drowning in ricketty boats in our waters, lives are still being lost elsewhere when people are being persecuted.

    It's like doing a happy dance after patching a hole in a bucket that is constantly filling with water and ignoring the overflow from the rim because you're too busy showing everyone what a great patch job you did.

    Can't read your link without subscribing, sorry.

    ETA-I don't want people to risk their lives on unsafe boats, either. But stopping the boats landing HERE doesn't stop the boats full stop iykwim. And it does nothing to address the root causes.
    Last edited by Atropos; 30-03-2014 at 16:39.

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