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  1. #171
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    I think the while food movement has a lot to answer for. Yes the government has it wrong about the food pyramid, the whole cholesterol thing with drugs being over prescribed etc... I think it's important to remember that real food people and the real food movement can also be pro vax. It just so happened that most of the popular blogs leading the way in whole/real food are anti vax.

  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by emily173 View Post
    If it is commonly agreed that Vaccinated people either (a) don't contract the illness at all or (b) have a mild and harmless version of the illness thanks to the vaccine... What's the problem? If the vaccine does what it claims to why are you so worried about the risk from the unvaccinated?
    Because if my newborn baby who cannot be fully vaccinated comes in contact with your unvaccinated child who may be carrying whooping cough, he is being put at risk.

    Sorry if that irks many of us.

    Ps...I haven't made it through all the comments yet.

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  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by loislane2010 View Post
    Our medical system (hospitals) have come along way in 50 years and i really truely believe if my children where to contract one of these diseases our hospitals will have treatment.
    Aren't you contradicting yourself? You believe our medical system has come a long way to help with treatment but not with prevention??????
    Last edited by HollyGolightly81; 29-03-2014 at 06:33.

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  6. #174
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    I'm just going to say this. I think the more we try to prove that the antivax people are incorrect or uneducated etc they r not going to change their mind they are just going to dig their heels in. Especially as they might feel silly or regret their decision but as they have fought so hard they don't want "egg on their face".
    I'm still not 100% sure what the point of the thread... Because the provaxs doing have an extreme viewpoint but they do admit that there are side effects.... But I notice a lot of the anti vax people use sub standard studies or have really not contributed anything to support their view except the "I don't wanna" stance. @atroops vicpark and beebs and others have given great evidence and have offered to provide more but no one wanted to take the opportunity so I don't think education was y this thread was created.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's all I'm noticing about this thread

  7. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I did have a flick through threads until 2011 (not that far back I know but there are lots of threads and I've had a busy day), didnt see one person calling someone else selfish.

    I'd never go to a 3rd world country myself let alone with my children regardless of if they were vaccinated or not.
    So you wouldn't go to Bali, Thailand or Fiji, etc for a holiday?

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  9. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by grooviechic35 View Post
    I'm just going to say this. I think the more we try to prove that the antivax people are incorrect or uneducated etc they r not going to change their mind they are just going to dig their heels in. Especially as they might feel silly or regret their decision but as they have fought so hard they don't want "egg on their face".
    I'm still not 100% sure what the point of the thread... Because the provaxs doing have an extreme viewpoint but they do admit that there are side effects.... But I notice a lot of the anti vax people use sub standard studies or have really not contributed anything to support their view except the "I don't wanna" stance. @atroops vicpark and beebs and others have given great evidence and have offered to provide more but no one wanted to take the opportunity so I don't think education was y this thread was created.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong but that's all I'm noticing about this thread
    I can't speak for the OP of course but I'm guessing she created the thread as she thought both pro and anti vaxxers were extreme- anti in their vaccination denial ism and refusal and pro in their refusal to acknowledge that vaccines can have side effects and can be less than 100% effective. I think that it's been pretty well demonstrated (here at least) that those in favour of vaccination are fully aware of, and acknowledge that, no vaccine is without risk and no vaccine is 100% effective.

    However, it has been shown (repeatedly) that vaccines are safe and are still highly effective for the vast majority of people.

    Another thing I find interesting in this sort of discussion is the selfishness discussion, but from a slightly different angle. I see a lot lately about how it takes a village to raise a child. There are groups on Facebook etc to provide mums with a "mama tribe" to belong to- in theory, supportive groups that are there for advice and practical support as well as regular meet ups. The baby wearing community is another one reclaiming the "tribe" - there's all kinds of groups coming together to support and help each other in our parenting. Even here on the hub such groups spring up all the time-how many of you are part of a due-in group that migrated from here to fb and then to IRL? My youngest is 18 months and my DIG is still active, we all talk all the time, meet up etc. So it seems we crave that community spirit- but the choice of vaccinating is somehow sacrosanct. It is, as others have pointed out, by definition, selfish not to vaccinate, in a way, because it puts your fears ahead of the benefits of the community. Like we want the support and help of the village to raise our kids- but we don't want to do what we can to, in turn, protect that community.
    I'm sure this is not how those who don't vaccinate come to their decision, but it's the end result all the same. I guess what worries me is the sheer amount of misinformation about vaccines out there. While it seems obvious to me when Im reading some dodgy website like the AV-sN or whale or whatever, it's clearly not obvious to everyone, and their are other sites that are less obvious in their crankery... I don't know. People who don't wish to vax are often pretty reluctant to share where their info comes from- anyone want to share?

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  11. #177
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    I think it simply comes down to a case of 'it won't happen to me' kind of ignorance, because we are indeed very safe in this country.

    Thanks to modern medicine and vaccinations of course. But a lot of people just don't appreciate something until it happens to them. And if someone who is against vaccination lost one if their children to one of these preventable diseases, you can bet they'd then vaccinate their other kids!

    It reminds me of similar attitudes in some young women, regarding feminism, that we don't need it these days...... What they're failing to realise is the hard work of the suffragettes and all who came before them that are the very reason women have it so much better today! But it's an ongoing thing, and shouldn't be ignored or we WILL go backwards!

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  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleetwood View Post
    I think it simply comes down to a case of 'it won't happen to me' kind of ignorance, because we are indeed very safe in this country.

    Thanks to modern medicine and vaccinations of course. But a lot of people just don't appreciate something until it happens to them. And if someone who is against vaccination lost one if their children to one of these preventable diseases, you can bet they'd then vaccinate their other kids!

    It reminds me of similar attitudes in some young women, regarding feminism, that we don't need it these days...... What they're failing to realise is the hard work of the suffragettes and all who came before them that are the very reason women have it so much better today! But it's an ongoing thing, and shouldn't be ignored or we WILL go backwards!
    That's an interesting comparison! I get cranky when women say they aren't feminists because to me that says they don't know what it means. It's not some extremist view- it's believing in equality for women and men. I guess some women may only come to feminism after being disadvantaged for their gender.
    I've not known and anti-vax folks who've had a child hit badly with a VPD so I can't be sure what they'd do. I've seen more than one on the fb page of the AVsN who claim their kids had measles/WC/rotavirus etc and it was super mild because they "drank raw milk/used homeopathy/high doses of vit c/etc" but it's hard to know if they even really had the illness iykwim because some of these people don't even seek medical attention- it's self diagnoses and treatment by placebo.

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  15. #179
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    Actually I do have a question.... All the non vaxxes or even people who a pro... Did u get the cervical cancer immunisation if not y and if u have a teenage child did u let them get it?

  16. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by emily173 View Post
    I haven't thought about it because this and other 'what if' situations aren't important in my current life or health choices.
    But you force kids, the sick and the elderly to live in a what if situation by not vaccinating...what of they come in contact with your kids and contract a disease because you thought you knew more than the doctors of the world.


 

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