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  1. #141
    headoverfeet's Avatar
    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Yep seen it said on here several times, along with words like lazy, uneducated, don't care enough about their kids health. But that is ok bc we just feel guilty bc we know deep down it's true... that the evidence is against formula..... much like all the evidence is against not vaxxing....

    Do you not see the irony here? Would you be upset if i told you that you are just having this response bc deep down you feel guilty, you are being precious and the scientific evidence is against you and you are in denial? welcome to the world of formula
    I honestly don't believe you, sorry.

    No I wouldn't, I find it offensive because I do not believe I am a selfish person nor do I believe it is selfish to do any of the above (FF, CIO for example). I am not in denial, I know what the evidence says, I always have.

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  3. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    My children recently had chicken pox while unvaccinated. They had a <10 spots each, a mild temp and a runny nose. I have seen plenty of local kids have a much worse case of them and I know they are vaccinated.
    I think this attitude is pretty selfish. That's so great for you and your kids that they didn't get too sick with chickenpox, but what about the little babies or the elderly or the people that can't be vaccinated for medical reasons that do get really sick because they aren't protected by heard immunity?

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  5. #143
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    Don't believe what? Everything she has said is true, just go read all the formula threads. It is all there in black and white.

    As to selfish, not all anti vaxxers are the same. Sorry, but the ones who plainly say they are quite comfortable piggy backing are behaving in a very selfish way. I know that isn't what all anti vaxxer's feel, of course a lot of them aren't behaving in a selfish way.

    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I honestly don't believe you, sorry.

    No I wouldn't, I find it offensive because I do not believe I am a selfish person nor do I believe it is selfish to do any of the above (FF, CIO for example). I am not in denial, I know what the evidence says, I always have.

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  7. #144
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    We had a big thread on this last year some time, basically a few studies have been done that shows that there is a tiny risk of a certain autoimmune disease about 1 in a million and it was something I'd never heard of - and I have multiple autoimmune diseases and consider myself well read on the subject.
    Then there was another study that showed that if you get measles you have a 1 in 5000 chance of triggering a certain autoimmune disease, so once again, it showed that you have a higher risk of getting autoimmune disease if you catch the virus rather than if you have the vaccination. Lol - like it always does

    I will try find you the links!

    Quote Originally Posted by javic View Post
    @beebs I'm really interested in the possible link between vaccines and autoimmune. My ds has an autoimmune disease and I'd heard there might be a link. Could you point me to any studies that support or refute this?

    anecdotally, at least, I have heard many times that unvaccinated kids have less ear infections and colds than vaxxed ones. I thought the survey I linked to might have referenced a more reputable source. The kiggs study?

    it also drives me nuts when anti-vax people claim it's all some big conspiracy. That's the height of ridiculousness! I personally believe that vaccines may do harm that is yet to be understood though. Along the lines of the recent review from Harvard on all the toxic chemicals in our food, water, furniture and toys. Aluminum isn't great for us is it!?

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  9. #145
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    Well worth a read.

    http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by javic View Post
    @beebs I'm really interested in the possible link between vaccines and autoimmune. My ds has an autoimmune disease and I'd heard there might be a link. Could you point me to any studies that support or refute this?

    anecdotally, at least, I have heard many times that unvaccinated kids have less ear infections and colds than vaxxed ones. I thought the survey I linked to might have referenced a more reputable source. The kiggs study?

    it also drives me nuts when anti-vax people claim it's all some big conspiracy. That's the height of ridiculousness! I personally believe that vaccines may do harm that is yet to be understood though. Along the lines of the recent review from Harvard on all the toxic chemicals in our food, water, furniture and toys. Aluminum isn't great for us is it!?

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  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I honestly don't believe you, sorry.

    No I wouldn't, I find it offensive because I do not believe I am a selfish person nor do I believe it is selfish to do any of the above (FF, CIO for example). I am not in denial, I know what the evidence says, I always have.
    I'm confused about this too. Plenty of people call formula feeders selfish, as odd as I find that personally.

    As for not vaxing being selfish... personally, I'm not going to back away from this. I don't know whether your choices match the following, so I don't know about you yourself, but this is what I consider selfish:

    1) Knows that vaccines work, knows that Australia is much safer than say Africa because of it, and would vaccinate their children if they lived in places like African countries.

    2) Decides that - because Australia has such high vaccination rates - the minimal risks of vaccinations are, on balance, worse than the chances of VPDs FOR THEIR OWN CHILDREN.

    Now, that last part's important. Some may see that as simply making the best choice for their family... doing what's best for their children and hence being far from selfish. I personally think that valuing your own children much more highly than other peoples' lives IS selfish. I think that being selfish is not just about looking out for yourself, but also your family, well above others.

    Now not everyone agrees with my views of what is selfish... but to me, that reasoning most definitely is.
    Last edited by Renn; 28-03-2014 at 17:48. Reason: grammar

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  13. #147
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    I also used the word selfish and I stand by it IF you are a piggy backer (which is what I said in my original comment)! If you are happy to ride on the fact that others are immunised then yes selfish choice. If you are not and can not immunised because of a genuine medical reason then no it's not selfish and that is the reason other must be vaccinated!

    i.e. my sister doesn't like needles and therefore wouldn't get the whooping cough vaccine. I told her until she did she wouldn't be able to see my daughter when she was born. If she medically couldn't be vaccinated then different story...we would work something else out. But not vaccinating because "she doesn't like them" I'm sorry is just as bad of an excuse as free riding on others.

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  15. #148
    harvs's Avatar
    harvs is offline Winner 2014 - Spirit of BubHub Award
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    I know that 'selfish' has negative connotations, but if you consider the definition -

    adjective
    1.
    devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others.
    2.
    characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself

    - and if we extend 'oneself' to mean 'oneself and one's own family', I'm not sure why anyone is up in arms over the use of the word in this context?

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  17. #149
    ~Marigold~'s Avatar
    ~Marigold~ is offline You make me happy, when skies are grey
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    I would be petrified if my child missed a vac. I wouldn't even want to visit the local shopping centre, for fear of my little one perhaps touching the handle of a shopping trolley or being coughed on or sneezed at! Really, I just could not breathe knowing that my child was out there in the open, unvaccinated and at risk. And that's not extreme or far fetched, its the truth, people out there have diseases that could harm my child. I'd be living in a bubble if I thought otherwise. How naive.
    I just read a story about a little girl who contracted measles (this seemingly "harmless" virus) as a toddler and died 10 years later due to complications that laid dormant. Why would anyone risk it?

    "Life Is Ours, We Live It Our Way".
    Last edited by ~Marigold~; 28-03-2014 at 20:23.

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  19. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Marigold~ View Post
    I would be petrified if my child missed a vac. I wouldn't even want to visit the local shopping centre, for fear of my little one perhaps touching the handle of a shopping trolley or being coughed on or sneezed at! Really, I just could not breathe knowing that my child was out there in the open, unvaccinated and at risk. And that's not extreme or far fetched, its the truth, people out there have diseases that could harm my child. I'd be living in a bubble if I thought otherwise. How naive.
    I just read a story about a little girl who contracted measles (this seemingly "harmless" virus) as a toddler and died 10 years later due to complications that laid dormant. Why would anyone risk it?

    "Life Is Ours, We Live It Our Way".
    I totally agree Marigold. The DAY my daughter can get her shots she gets them. The medical centre I recently started going to couldn't get her in for 3 weeks after she was due because of all the flu shots, so I rang our old centre and got her in the day she was due. Wasn't risking that!

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