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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    As a non vaccinator/delayed vaccinator I have never denied that vaccinations work. My risk assessment just lead me to believe that we were better off not vaccinating/delaying. That maybe not be what you would decide but I will always do what I believe is best for my family.

    I am quiet offended by this declaring that people that dont vaccinate are selfish. Are women who dont want to breastfeed selfish? What about those who CIO? Seems to be perfectly ok to call non vaccinators here on bubhub selfish but it wouldnt be tolerated in any other pareting choice. Not cool in my opinion.
    Well, i take responsibility for that because i used that word in my post. I am sorry you were offended but the reason i used that word is because the decision of not to vaccinate does not only effect the person/family involved. It also effects the community as well.
    If someone chooses to or not to breast feed, that does not put anyone else at risk, the same as people who choose to CIO.
    Last edited by bpac; 28-03-2014 at 15:35.

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  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    As a non vaccinator/delayed vaccinator I have never denied that vaccinations work. My risk assessment just lead me to believe that we were better off not vaccinating/delaying. That maybe not be what you would decide but I will always do what I believe is best for my family.

    I am quiet offended by this declaring that people that dont vaccinate are selfish. Are women who dont want to breastfeed selfish? What about those who CIO? Seems to be perfectly ok to call non vaccinators here on bubhub selfish but it wouldnt be tolerated in any other pareting choice. Not cool in my opinion.
    I think the reason it's 'ok' to call non vaxers selfish is because your decision doesn't just affect you or your family. You are potentially risking the lives of others that for one reason or another can't be vaccinated.

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  5. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    As a non vaccinator/delayed vaccinator I have never denied that vaccinations work. My risk assessment just lead me to believe that we were better off not vaccinating/delaying. That maybe not be what you would decide but I will always do what I believe is best for my family.

    I am quiet offended by this declaring that people that dont vaccinate are selfish. Are women who dont want to breastfeed selfish? What about those who CIO? Seems to be perfectly ok to call non vaccinators here on bubhub selfish but it wouldnt be tolerated in any other pareting choice. Not cool in my opinion.
    When you see some people (here and elsewhere) openly acknowledging they are piggy backing off the herd immunity of vaccinating families, it's hard not to find this selfish. ( not saying this is you, just saying this is seen as a selfish thing to do)
    I don't know your motivations HoF, or what you used to make your risk assessment. Your comparisons are different though. I do remember reading about the public health benefits of breastfeeding, but the difference there is that breastfeeding requires a mother who is able to do so- obviously, not all can. There are many factors as to why someone may or may not bf. CIO too- I believe there are proven detrimental affects to CIO. Do they affect our society? I don't know. Does it really affect every baby who has CIO long term? I'm not sure. Maybe there should be more research. We do know know that vaccine refusal is impacting society as a whole. That is why it is seen as selfish not to vax.
    I probably have used the term before. Usually out of frustration but you're right, it's terribly not cool. I don't actually think people who don't vax do so maliciously. I get frustrated because the info is there for all to see, yet many refuse to source reliable info and rely on crank websites and dodgy books written by unqualified people. So I do find it selfish sometimes yes. But it shouldn't be a blanket assumption.
    Last edited by Atropos; 28-03-2014 at 15:47.

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  7. #134
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    I realise the public health differences are different or less researched but that wasnt my point. I do not believe it is polite to call someone selfish just because they perceive the possible complications associated with vaccinating higher than the risk of thier child being damaged by a VPD. It wouldnt be tollerated in any other parenting choice here on bubhub.

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    @beebs I'm really interested in the possible link between vaccines and autoimmune. My ds has an autoimmune disease and I'd heard there might be a link. Could you point me to any studies that support or refute this?

    anecdotally, at least, I have heard many times that unvaccinated kids have less ear infections and colds than vaxxed ones. I thought the survey I linked to might have referenced a more reputable source. The kiggs study?

    it also drives me nuts when anti-vax people claim it's all some big conspiracy. That's the height of ridiculousness! I personally believe that vaccines may do harm that is yet to be understood though. Along the lines of the recent review from Harvard on all the toxic chemicals in our food, water, furniture and toys. Aluminum isn't great for us is it!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    It wouldnt be tollerated in any other parenting choice here on bubhub.
    Well actually those sort of things are said all the time in regard to your examples, including ffing, which I find ironic. In fact formula feeders cop it quite badly on here. The difference is that formula doesn't kill a child, nor anyone else's. So the way bfers carry on about formula is even more ridiculous than vaxxing.

    Yet when we formula mums complain about our treatment we are told we are overly sensitive, can't handle 'the truth', and just feel guilty.

    Food for thought.

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  12. #137
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Well actually those sort of things are said all the time in regard to your examples, including ffing, which I find ironic. In fact formula feeders cop it quite badly on here. The difference is that formula doesn't kill a child, nor anyone else's. So the way bfers carry on about formula is even more ridiculous than vaxxing.

    Yet when we formula mums complain about our treatment we are told we are overly sensitive, can't handle 'the truth', and just feel guilty.

    Food for thought.
    I have never seen a FF be told that they are selfish!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    When you see some people (here and elsewhere) openly acknowledging they are piggy backing off the herd immunity of vaccinating families, it's hard not to find this selfish. ( not saying this is you, just saying this is seen as a selfish thing to do)
    I don't know your motivations HoF, or what you used to make your risk assessment. Your comparisons are different though. I do remember reading about the public health benefits of breastfeeding, but the difference there is that breastfeeding requires a mother who is able to do so- obviously, not all can. There are many factors as to why someone may or may not bf. CIO too- I believe there are proven detrimental affects to CIO. Do they affect our society? I don't know. Does it really affect every baby who has CIO long term? I'm not sure. Maybe there should be more research. We do know know that vaccine refusal is impacting society as a whole. That is why it is seen as selfish not to vax.
    I probably have used the term before. Usually out of frustration but you're right, it's terribly not cool. I don't actually think people who don't vax do so maliciously. I get frustrated because the info is there for all to see, yet many refuse to source reliable info and rely on crank websites and dodgy books written by unqualified people. So I do find it selfish sometimes yes. But it shouldn't be a blanket assumption.
    You put this way better then i ever could. I agree 100%.

    HOF, i have apologised for offending you. I did not direct my comment at any particular person.

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  15. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I have never seen a FF be told that they are selfish!
    As a formula feeder, I can guarantee you it has happened, on the forum and IRL. Often.

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using The Bub Hub mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    I have never seen a FF be told that they are selfish!
    Yep seen it said on here several times, along with words like lazy, uneducated, don't care enough about their kids health. But that is ok bc we just feel guilty bc we know deep down it's true... that the evidence is against formula..... much like all the evidence is against not vaxxing....

    Do you not see the irony here? Would you be upset if i told you that you are just having this response bc deep down you feel guilty, you are being precious and the scientific evidence is against you and you are in denial? welcome to the world of formula

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