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  1. #361
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    I pray this gets through, we're hoping to TTC next July so if we got pregnant straight away (or soonish at least!) we'd get this before Labor inevitably get voted in and scrap it!

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  3. #362
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    Whilst I love the idea of it as someone who is TTC I don't think I support this scheme to be honest. Would prefer it axed over something like the intro of the co-payment or changes to unemployment benefit or to higher education.

    I read a comment on an ABC article that does make sense: "the pronatalists tart up income redistribution as effecting gender equality or a matter of social justice, that taxpayers have an obligation to maintain the modern parents' refusal to budget and live within their means when they have a baby. Parenthood is a choice, keeping up with the Jones' is a choice, the big mortgage is a choice"

    I really hope it's not introduced at the expense of real social goods and infrastructure.

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  5. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silkentofu View Post
    Whilst I love the idea of it as someone who is TTC I don't think I support this scheme to be honest. Would prefer it axed over something like the intro of the co-payment or changes to unemployment benefit or to higher education.

    I read a comment on an ABC article that does make sense: "the pronatalists tart up income redistribution as effecting gender equality or a matter of social justice, that taxpayers have an obligation to maintain the modern parents' refusal to budget and live within their means when they have a baby. Parenthood is a choice, keeping up with the Jones' is a choice, the big mortgage is a choice"

    I really hope it's not introduced at the expense of real social goods and infrastructure.
    In some relationships the woman is the breadwinner, and it's not about 'living within their means when they have a baby' as your quoted quote suggests, it's about just living at all and maintaining something resembling the normal income.

    Yes, men can elect to be stay at home dads, but women are the only ones that can physically have a child and most will need a few weeks / months off before they are physically able to return to work, depending on their job and how the birth went.

    Maybe those women who are the breadwinners could scrimp and save for some months in order to have the necessary savings set aside to continue paying the bills when they need the time off.. but families that have a male as the breadwinner aren't placed in that situation, because if needed they can keep on working through bar a couple of weeks of carer's or annual leave at full pay.

    So, in the interests of equality between the sexes, I really do believe it's about gender equality and levelling up the playing field for families, particularly those where the woman is the breadwinner.

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  7. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM01 View Post
    In some relationships the woman is the breadwinner, and it's not about 'living within their means when they have a baby' as your quoted quote suggests, it's about just living at all and maintaining something resembling the normal income.

    Yes, men can elect to be stay at home dads, but women are the only ones that can physically have a child and most will need a few weeks / months off before they are physically able to return to work, depending on their job and how the birth went.

    Maybe those women who are the breadwinners could scrimp and save for some months in order to have the necessary savings set aside to continue paying the bills when they need the time off.. but families that have a male as the breadwinner aren't placed in that situation, because if needed they can keep on working through bar a couple of weeks of carer's or annual leave at full pay.

    So, in the interests of equality between the sexes, I really do believe it's about gender equality and levelling up the playing field for families, particularly those where the woman is the breadwinner.
    If it's about gender equality why can't both the couple put money aside for maternity leave? I don't think this scheme does anything for gender equality

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mum2b87 View Post
    If it's about gender equality why can't both the couple put money aside for maternity leave? I don't think this scheme does anything for gender equality
    Obviously I didn't explain my point well enough if you are asking this question... If a man is the bread winner the essential time off is minimal and therefore there doesn't necessarily have to be anything saved. If the woman is the bread winner it is a different story. That is definitely inequality and doesn't encourage woman to be the breadwinner of the family.

    If I'm to take your post literally in terms of why can't the man put aside some money from his wage and the woman put aside some money from her wage and therefore make it equal.. well if the woman is the breadwinner the man may not work, or work part time or casually... the couple may have combined finances etc.. but if you question is this literal then I don't think you're seeing the bigger picture of my argument.

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    Even if it's about gender equality (which I'm not sure it is) - there's already a basic ppl scheme in place that can help with the bare essentials... And at the end of it parenthood in most cases is a choice... Where as redundancy or illness is not! If there really is a "budget emergency" with budget cuts to essential services then the idea of PPL at full wage just doesn't sit right with me.

  10. #367
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    You know what I think.

    Parental leave is a workplace entitlement and as such should be paid at wage rate like any other leave (sick leave, annual leave etc).
    Both genders should have access to it and it should not matter what your salary is - you are entitled to it.

    I'm not a fan of the proposed new scheme either but it is still heaps better than the current one.

    Also it is not a question of either/or. The proposed new scheme has to be self funded ie. whether it will go through or not will have zero impact on other budget expenses/cuts.

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  12. #368
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    I have to self fund having 6 weeks off after birth because I miss out on PPL by a few weeks even though I was in full time study and have worked full time for over 9.5 months leading up to having the baby. It is not fair but I have to suck it up. We have chosen to have my partner take PPL as we would have to self fund my leave anyway.

    I am a bit surprised that if I was a man I could get paternity leave of 2 weeks but not because I am the mum. The whole system is flawed and really needs to be looked at for true gender equality.

    I am just sucking it up but it is very annoying.

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  14. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExcuseMyFrench View Post

    Also it is not a question of either/or. The proposed new scheme has to be self funded ie. whether it will go through or not will have zero impact on other budget expenses/cuts.
    No such thing. The money has to come form somewhere, there will be impacts even if they are indirect ones.

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    I don't see why everyone is getting their knickers in a knot. WHO recommend BF to 6 months, unfortunately fathers cannot do this. I assume it's due to the fact some get more than others.
    Whilst ppl is not a welfare benefit, I would like to point out that even on welfare people are entitled to different amounts based on their personal circumstances. No different here.

    Did you know that a large portion of the female workforce are in employment arrangements that don't offer any paid maternity leave?
    This is a step in the right direction for Australia.

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