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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    We had our third son circumcised 2 weeks ago. The rate of circumcisions in WA has risen in the past year by 8% which I found interesting.
    Hi Kimberleygal1,

    I was wondering if you might be able to tell me the source of your information on the 8% rise in circumcisions for W.A - Just interested to know as that is a statistically significant rise, and I'd like to know what factors could be driving that. With regard to your own boys, have you found circumcising them something that was easy to go about?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by sky1 View Post
    For the financial year 2013-14:
    MBS item 30656 (Over 6 months but under 10) =3,509
    MBS item 30659 (Over 10 years) = 978


    For the previous financial year 2012-13:
    MBS item 30656 (Over 6 months but under 10) =3,886
    MBS item 30659 (Over 10 years) = 975

    You can see the state breakdowns by putting the item numbers in the report generator here: https://www.medicareaustralia.gov.au...mbs_item.shtml

    Not sure what the actual percentage of the total male of population in those age brackets the numbers represent.
    Thank you for those statistics. I think that generally speaking, it is a shame that parents - be they pro or anti circumcision - can't get easy access to figures that will tell them the number of circumcised baby boys as a percentage of the total infant male population in those age brackets, rather than just the 'raw' number of circumcisions performed. This is not intended as a negative reflection on you, sky1, or indeed anyone posting on here; I just feel that it would be easier for parents to say, "Oh OK, 10% of all males aged under 6 months are circumcised" (for example), or "5% of all males aged over 6 months are circumcised" (for example) rather than just "15,000 males under 6 months were circumcised", as that kind of statistic cannot give a sense of proportionality in terms of the overall number of infant males.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nkozi View Post
    Hi Kimberleygal1,

    I was wondering if you might be able to tell me the source of your information on the 8% rise in circumcisions for W.A - Just interested to know as that is a statistically significant rise, and I'd like to know what factors could be driving that. With regard to your own boys, have you found circumcising them something that was easy to go about?
    The increase of 8% was discussed at the clinic, I would think considering it is the only circ clinic in Perth so most, if not all the circs are done there, the numbers have come from there. I will ask the specialist to confirm this. There was a story regarding it on the news a few weeks ago with the specialist.

    He indicated that the rise is partly due to Australia being more multicultural.

    Yes we we did find circumcision easy to go about. It is something dh and I believed in, discussed, researched and decided on many years before we had children. We live remote and delivered all 3 of our boys in Perth. Ds1 was circ'd at 4 days old in the private hospital he was born, that specialised has since retired and so ds2 and ds3 were circ'd at 2 weeks old in the Clinic. Our ob actually provided us with the details of the specialists as he is pro circ.

  4. #44
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    The ABS has just published the Births catalogue for 2013, which allows us to convert the raw number of Medicare rebates for circumcision of boys aged under 6 months to percentages (I've included the percentages for 2012 for comparison):

    circ30653.jpg

    The decline in the national rate is largely being driven by falls in NSW and Queensland, particularly in regional areas. The small rise in WA is 4.3%, and probably a result of a growing Muslim population (as is also the case in Victoria and ACT).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nkozi View Post
    I was wondering if you might be able to provide statistics for baby boys being circumcised at or above 6 months, rather than just those under 6 months ... Also, I am interested as to how accurate the Medicare figures are in terms of the view of circumcision they provide, given that, as I understand it, circumcisions not generating a Medicare rebate (e.g. circumcisions by private practitioners, ritual circumcisions etc.) would not be included in the statistics as given ...
    The rebate data probably account for about 95% of procedures. The biggest gap is where the procedure is not billed against the relevant MBS code, so a rebate is never claimed. There appear to be about 1,500 Queensland procedures in that category, and I have adjusted the figures below to take account of these.

    I think the most relevant statistic to answer your question is: what percentage of boys starting school have been circumcised? It is possible to calculate a cumulative risk for boys aged 0-4 years, which answers that question. These are the figures for 2012-13.

    circ_risk_12-13.jpg

    Note, these data mean the percentage of boys born in financial year 2012-13 who will be circumcised by their fifth birthday if circumcision rates remain the same as then.

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    You don't think that the numbers may be an artifact of the change of approach to funding. It used to be a free for all for any parent wanting a prophylactic circumcision. Now it is only for medical treatment. I have heard of a doctor being required to repay money due to performing prophylactic circumcisions using medicare funding.

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    I have heard of a doctor being required to repay money due to performing prophylactic circumcisions using medicare funding.
    And so he should have.

    I thought MediCare only covered the initial consultation. Was thee ever a time they covered the whole thing? Its likely MediCare have allowed themselves to be rorted regarding circs.

    In the UK in about 1948, funding was dropped and rates plummeted to near zero. (And have remained there since, except for religious circ). Yes, loss of the freebie
    could account for a decline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serendipity22 View Post
    And so he should have.

    I thought MediCare only covered the initial consultation. Was thee ever a time they covered the whole thing? Its likely MediCare have allowed themselves to be rorted regarding circs.

    In the UK in about 1948, funding was dropped and rates plummeted to near zero. (And have remained there since, except for religious circ). Yes, loss of the freebie
    could account for a decline.
    Never had a consult before having our boys done. We just booked the procedure. If one has done the research and decided on having the procedure done I doubt the cost would be a factor.

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    I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that may be one of the factors, but there seem to be other factors involved as well, like some people deciding that the benefits don't out weight the risks, or even, that at this point in time there is no real evidence to prove a need for it (in Western countries). And also, that intact males are more widely accepted than they used to be etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeniG View Post
    You don't think that the numbers may be an artifact of the change of approach to funding. It used to be a free for all for any parent wanting a prophylactic circumcision. Now it is only for medical treatment. I have heard of a doctor being required to repay money due to performing prophylactic circumcisions using medicare funding.

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    Thanks but the medicare figures are used to show a recent decline and I'm skeptical about a recent decline. I think the appearance of a decline is just the medicare crackdown and there is really a large increase if anything. There have been indications of increased circumcision in NSW and Victoria based on media articles and in Queensland anecdotal indications are of an increase if anything (eg. a childcare worker asking why everyone is circumcising these days or 100% of male toddlers at a swimming school who shower publicly being circumcised.). I think that now it is clearly established that there is health benefits it is reasonable to expect that people will get their babies taken care of.

    I know there is still a strong vocal opposition to vaccination and circumcision in the teeth of the scientific evidence showing how effectual these things are and I know two families who don't consider these things to have benefit but generally I don't believe people will avoid very safe procedures that protect their kids health (places like Nimbin excepted) (ironically in both families a son had to be circumcised later for medical reasons and in one all the kids got whooping cough- obviously bad luck was a factor).

    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that may be one of the factors, but there seem to be other factors involved as well, like some people deciding that the benefits don't out weight the risks, or even, that at this point in time there is no real evidence to prove a need for it (in Western countries). And also, that intact males are more widely accepted than they used to be etc.


 

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