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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I think it is hard to base anything on one year. One year in the scheme of things really means nothing. So best to take a look over a larger period of time. Circ rates in Australia in the 1950s were 90% as of 2010 they were 12.4% according to the Australia and New Zealand journal of health. The stats really speak for themselves.
    I agree. One small decline over one year is such a small window in a big turnaround over 60 odd years.

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  3. #12
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    Indeed, it reminds me of when climate change deniers use the old "the temp didn't go up in the last 6 months, see......seeeeee!!!" haha

    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I agree. One small decline over one year is such a small window in a big turnaround over 60 odd years.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I think it is hard to base anything on one year. One year in the scheme of things really means nothing. So best to take a look over a larger period of time. Circ rates in Australia in the 1950s were 90% as of 2010 they were 12.4% according to the Australia and New Zealand journal of health. The stats really speak for themselves.

    I certainly agree that on a long-term view, the decline in infant circumcision has been dramatic. I would also suggest, however, that the 12.4% (or thereabouts) who continue to be circumcised are not a statistically insignificant demographic in itself; 12.4 % of all baby boys is quite sizeable, in my view. What I am wondering, therefore, is whether the other 70-80% of boys who would once have been circumcised are now not being circumcised because the possibility of doing so appears to have been closed-off to their parents (e.g. couldn't find a doctor, too expensive or whatever), or because even if it was very readily available in hospitals as it used to be, the parents are actually opposed to it in a deep sense. In other words, I wonder if the present rate is what it is because parents don't want their son(s) to be circumcised, or if in fact they do want to, but don't see it as a possibility that they could actually pursue...Of course, I realise that a lot more parents are now genuinely opposed to the procedure 'at heart' than used to be the case, but I also wonder if part of that long-term decline is attributable to parents simply not circumcising due to various practicalities involved, rather than not circumcising because they are against it.

    I find this distinction in motivations behind choosing not to circumcise interesting, because if there are a significant number of parents who would have circumcised if the procedure was as readily available as it once was, then it suggests that the relatively low rate of infant circumcision in Australia is not necessarily reflective of negative parental attitudes toward circumcision.

  6. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nkozi View Post
    What I am wondering, therefore, is whether the other 70-80% of boys who would once have been circumcised are now not being circumcised because the possibility of doing so appears to have been closed-off to their parents (e.g. couldn't find a doctor, too expensive or whatever), or because even if it was very readily available in hospitals as it used to be, the parents are actually opposed to it in a deep sense.
    Good question, but there is simply insufficient data on parental motivation to give a definitive answer. Anecdotally, there are at least a small percentage of parents who don't circumcise because of the difficulty in finding a provider.

    However, it should be noted that when the State hospital systems progressively stopped offering elective circumcision over the last decade, rates were already low (< 20%) and there was little in the way of adverse reaction from parents. This is pretty good evidence that the decline is driven by falling demand rather than lack of supply.
    Last edited by JohnC; 11-02-2014 at 19:11.

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  8. #15
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    My (private) ob asked me if I wanted to. I was quite surprised tbh since I hadn't been thinking about it at all.

  9. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nkozi View Post
    I certainly agree that on a long-term view, the decline in infant circumcision has been dramatic. I would also suggest, however, that the 12.4% (or thereabouts) who continue to be circumcised are not a statistically insignificant demographic in itself; 12.4 % of all baby boys is quite sizeable, in my view. What I am wondering, therefore, is whether the other 70-80% of boys who would once have been circumcised are now not being circumcised because the possibility of doing so appears to have been closed-off to their parents (e.g. couldn't find a doctor, too expensive or whatever), or because even if it was very readily available in hospitals as it used to be, the parents are actually opposed to it in a deep sense. In other words, I wonder if the present rate is what it is because parents don't want their son(s) to be circumcised, or if in fact they do want to, but don't see it as a possibility that they could actually pursue...Of course, I realise that a lot more parents are now genuinely opposed to the procedure 'at heart' than used to be the case, but I also wonder if part of that long-term decline is attributable to parents simply not circumcising due to various practicalities involved, rather than not circumcising because they are against it.

    I find this distinction in motivations behind choosing not to circumcise interesting, because if there are a significant number of parents who would have circumcised if the procedure was as readily available as it once was, then it suggests that the relatively low rate of infant circumcision in Australia is not necessarily reflective of negative parental attitudes toward circumcision.
    What about the fact that only a small number of medical professionals offer elective circ? Does that not indicate that there is a growing negative attitude towards the procedure in the medical field?

    I think there has definitely been a shift in many parents towards leaving their sons intact as information has become more available and more widely discussed.

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  11. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I think there has definitely been a shift in many parents towards leaving their sons intact as information has become more available and more widely discussed.
    There is a further important factor: namely, the fall in the number of first-time fathers who are themselves circumcised. This reflects the big declines in incidence in the 1970s and 80s and is, I believe, the principal factor that will drive routine circumcision to extinction in Australia over the next couple of decades.

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  13. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    There is a further important factor: namely, the fall in the number of first-time fathers who are themselves circumcised. This reflects the big declines in incidence in the 1970s and 80s and is, I believe, the principal factor that will drive routine circumcision to extinction in Australia over the next couple of decades.
    Yes, good point. The one person I know IRL to have circ'd her son did so "so he would look like dad" so with less circ'd dads as well as better education it stands to reason there will be even less RIC.

  14. #19
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    I think part of the reason is because it is now specialised drs that perform the procedure whereas before it used to be performed by GP's and in public hospitals which is no longer allowed. It would be interesting and surprising to see the stats of the procedure being performed when boys are older. I know many parents who have been frowned upon when enquiring about the procedure when birthing in public hospitals and have therefore put it in the too hard basket not pursueing it. Having worked in the health service for 15yrs including a childrens hospital I know the procedure has been performed on many children when they are older. My ob also asked us if we wanted the procedure performed if we had boys, I also had a nurse ask after delivery which surprised me. I delivered in a private hospital and the specialist performing the procedure did it within the hospital. It really is a personal choice depending on your beliefs or religion. Hubby and I researched the procedure thoroughly, it isn't a decision anyone would make lightly. We believe strongly in the benefits and have no regrets having our boys circumcised at birth and we have already spoken to the specialist about doing the procedure should we have a third son. We wouldn't have it any other way. Not having our boys done was not an option, that's how strongly we feel about it.

  15. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    I think part of the reason is because it is now specialised drs that perform the procedure whereas before it used to be performed by GP's and in public hospitals which is no longer allowed. It would be interesting and surprising to see the stats of the procedure being performed when boys are older.
    In fact the majority of infant circumcisions are today performed by GPs in "clinics", with about 30% done in private hospitals.

    About 3-4% of all boys are circumcised between the ages of 1 and 14 years.

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